LX470 Comparo

[ShottsUZJ100]

FirstToy wrote: "CDL disables TRAC. You can spin the tires all day with the push of a button."

I wan't aware of that. Are you sure? That makes no sense whatsover. In the tough stuff with the CDL locked is where you need traction control most? 4Wheeler and all these other mags testing speak of the ActiveTrac and wheelspin and I'm sure they're running CDL locked. Are you sure!?!?!? If so, that's another flaw in this vehicle. J

 

[Snook]

FirstToy wrote: "CDL disables TRAC. You can spin the tires all day with the push of a button."

I wan't aware of that. Are you sure? That makes no sense whatsover. In the tough stuff with the CDL locked is where you need traction control most? 4Wheeler and all these other mags testing speak of the ActiveTrac and wheelspin and I'm sure they're running CDL locked. Are you sure!?!?!? If so, that's another flaw in this vehicle. J

Does that issue applied only to 4Runner/GX platform, not 100 series?

 

[FirstToy]

FirstToy wrote: "CDL disables TRAC. You can spin the tires all day with the push of a button."

I wan't aware of that. Are you sure? That makes no sense whatsover. In the tough stuff with the CDL locked is where you need traction control most? 4Wheeler and all these other mags testing speak of the ActiveTrac and wheelspin and I'm sure they're running CDL locked. Are you sure!?!?!? If so, that's another flaw in this vehicle. J

from my understanding, TRAC is an active electronic system that distributes power to various wheels-detecting slippage. If you lock the center diff, how can it work? It doesn't make sense. You are locking out the ability to transfer various % of power to various wheels. Clearly, when you lock the center diff, the TRAC-off lights up on the dash.

I am far from an experienced off-roader but everything has performed fantastic and I think the Torsen diff is great. I don't know why they had trouble in the dunes but I've played at Pismo and everything was ok.

 

[ace10]

Each model of jag is a different animal but the X-type is widely regarded as a pieces of s***. That's why it depreciates quickly and that's why they're having to give them away.

i own one, and no, it's not a pieces of s***. can you name a better value for the money? and please don't say a subaru... i wouldn't own one if it were given to me. $25K, all wheel drive, leather, power everything, v6, four year warranty, no cost service, and 25mpg combined. it drives nicely, stick shifts reasonably well and looks really classy. it's no rocket ship but it's a comfortable cruiser.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

The 100's A-Trac system works with the CDL locked or unlocked. It controls wheelpin VERY tighly by shifting power from left to right and visa-versa. Locking the CDL has no effect though overall it improves things a lot.

It's also is a 2-stage system superior to any out there. On light throttle, wheelspin is very minimal and traction gains are quite increased (simulating a locker(s) quite well).
In the sand, mud , or snow (for example) the 2nd stage works. By using a heavier throttle, the A-Trac allows for wheelspin in order to fling the mud/sand out so you keep going, WITHOUT the truck cutting power on it's own.
The pre-set settings are also different for 4HI and 4LO.

What 100 owners (like myself did, until I learned the system) do that's wrong off-road is give it a little too much gas when climbing rocks or loose surfaces. This can create wheelspin because the truck thinks you need Stage 2. Simply keep a light, sometimes very light foot on the gas and DON'T let up. Let the system do the work and it'll crawl you up and over. You'll be amazed at where you can go WITHOUT lockers on an Active-Trac equipped 100. (Now.....add a rear locker and you're 1-up. Locked rear, traction controlled open front for added traction and full turning capability and you go about everywhere.)

Unlike the other Toyota model's with A-Trac, the 100 will not slow you down bringing you to a stop (like the 4Runner, GX, and Sequioa....and most SUV's will). This is the flaw in their tuning like some magazines have reported.

 

[lurker]

i own one, and no, it's not a pieces of s***. can you name a better value for the money? and please don't say a subaru... i wouldn't own one if it were given to me. $25K, all wheel drive, leather, power everything, v6, four year warranty, no cost service, and 25mpg combined. it drives nicely, stick shifts reasonably well and looks really classy. it's no rocket ship but it's a comfortable cruiser.

Sorry but deep down inside it's a Ford.

And you don't want to go there with me on this one.

 

[tabraha]

Put a cork in it before I want to trade up!!!

The 100's A-Trac system works with the CDL locked or unlocked. It controls wheelpin VERY tighly by shifting power from left to right and visa-versa. Locking the CDL has no effect though overall it improves things a lot.

It's also is a 2-stage system superior to any out there. On light throttle, wheelspin is very minimal and traction gains are quite increased (simulating a locker(s) quite well).
In the sand, mud , or snow (for example) the 2nd stage works. By using a heavier throttle, the A-Trac allows for wheelspin in order to fling the mud/sand out so you keep going, WITHOUT the truck cutting power on it's own.
The pre-set settings are also different for 4HI and 4LO.

What 100 owners (like myself did, until I learned the system) do that's wrong off-road is give it a little too much gas when climbing rocks or loose surfaces. This can create wheelspin because the truck thinks you need Stage 2. Simply keep a light, sometimes very light foot on the gas and DON'T let up. Let the system do the work and it'll crawl you up and over. You'll be amazed at where you can go WITHOUT lockers on an Active-Trac equipped 100. (Now.....add a rear locker and you're 1-up. Locked rear, traction controlled open front for added traction and full turning capability and you go about everywhere.)

Unlike the other Toyota model's with A-Trac, the 100 will not slow you down bringing you to a stop (like the 4Runner, GX, and Sequioa....and most SUV's will). This is the flaw in their tuning like some magazines have reported.

 

[FirstToy]

Unlike the other Toyota model's with A-Trac, the 100 will not slow you down bringing you to a stop (like the 4Runner, GX, and Sequioa....and most SUV's will). This is the flaw in their tuning like some magazines have reported.

Shotts,
You readily admit the 100's electronics require a learning curve but you think the GX/4R's are defective because it also requires a learning curve?

I really like the GX/4R's systems, they are invisible and not obtrusive. Maybe that is my inexperience, maybe it's good Toyota design. I'm not comparing this to the 100, btw. I am just saying the TRAC is not a hinderance, it can be turned off and I've never seen it as a flaw

From FourWheeler:
"the '04 Toyota 4Runner has always been a competent trail performer, sharing much componentry with its sibling, the Lexus GX470. One example of this shared-technology approach is the traction-control system, which employs the vehicle's ABS system to redirect torque to the wheels with the most traction. The system takes some getting used to, but once familiar with the dynamics and timing of it all, a driver can rely on it to get enough traction for almost any situation. "

From a Rockcrawler article:
"The VSC thwarted our every effort to toss some rooster tails, keeping the speedometer at a rather lame 20mph or so. Obviously, we weren't going to get anywhere soon. Not happy that the VSC thought it was smarter than me, I hit the VSC switch and turned the system off, allowing me free reign of the accelerator pedal. Now we're talking! Some two-footed pedal action got things going. Some wheel sawing, some heavy gas here and some brake pedal stomping there got the 4Runner back on-track in no time, to the amazement of everyone present - including the folks from Toyota."

"We discovered quickly that the VSC system was a bit over-active, as it would thwart our every attempt at spinning out and having some fun in the mud. You could hear and feel the brakes varying and grabbing at each over-spin of a wheel. Luckily, this is one system that is actually defeatable with a switch. But we mostly left it on in order to see what it was really all about. We suspect that in most real-world scenarios the system would work well - just not for those of us wanting to have fun off-road."

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Sounds like you haven't ventured off road much FirstToy. Not doggin' ya for that.

You might want to check the dictionary on the word "defective". I never used that word (are you voting for Kerry?) Kidding, stick with me......

It's a known fact in the industry that Traction Control systems are a poor substitute for "traction" (or having lockers) off road. They've been dogged for years and it even took me many trips in the 100 to convince 80-owners that Traction Control (if done right) can work, even in tough situations.

The problem is FirstToy that the traction control in the 4Runner/GX and almost every other vehicle made today is of poor design and/or a different design. They allow too much wheel spin which is hard on the rig and the trail, they cut power which results in the stop of forward motion, and they simply don't get the truck where it needs to go. Most systems are meant to help in snow, rain, and mild rocky terrain. For that, your 4Runner is as good as anything out there. This doesn't mean they're DEFECTIVE systems though they are flawed for serious off-roading. I am guessing it costs more $$z to make a better system like on the 100. Who knows??? If not, there's no excuse for these other rigs to be designed less effectively.

To date, I only know of 3 rigs that have traction control done "right" for off-road driving. They are:

2000+ Land Cruiser
Discovery II
Range Rover/New Range Rover

The Rover's however in some years have a flaw. They didn't have a CDL-Traction Control combo and therefore were inneffective and/or dangerous in certain situations. For more on this go to:
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery/index.html
(see the lower part)

As for 4Wheelers' 4Runner comments, they've also commented the GX spun wheels too much at times which was not good. It depends on where they took the things. For mild 4Wheeling you're fine. For more challenging, you're not. Sorry to tell you that. Until you locker-up a GX or 4Runner forget the serious stuff. Come on down to Tucson and we'll run!

BTW: You brought up VSC? It has nothing to do with ActiveTrac and off-roading (unless you're sliding around corners on dirt roads at 50MPH). VSC works great on the 100 as it does on almost EVERY vehicle that has it. VSC is easily tuned on truck or car.

 

[FirstToy]

My eyes have glazed over.

The TRAC can be turned off, it isn't a hinderance.

I don't have any illusions of the capability of my truck and yet I still love it, go figure.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Turned off? Then why have it? What purpose does it then serve? Without some traction device in play you stop in your tracks (as it did up the dunes).

 

[reffug]

but they are leasing them for less than a honda civic and sellin them for $7K to $8K off msrp.

I hate to tell you Ace but that POS is gonna be dead long after my Honda Civic is just getting broke in, and at 42 mpg my poor little civic is gonna at that overated sedaaan that you might look cool in ,but it don't do notin it ain't notin cause it ain't reliable ,it ain't efficient ,and it ain't all that cool. Unless you like to be recognized for being a............................... ........................with a lack of taste.

Oh and BTW nothin but love Shotz nothin but love you big 100

 

[ace10]

I hate to tell you Ace but that POS is gonna be dead long after my Honda Civic is just getting broke in, and at 42 mpg my poor little civic is gonna at that overated sedaaan that you might look cool in ,but it don't do notin it ain't notin cause it ain't reliable ,it ain't efficient ,and it ain't all that cool. Unless you like to be recognized for being a............................... ........................with a lack of taste.

Oh and BTW nothin but love Shotz nothin but love you big 100

thats' awhole bunch of insults, given that you're suggesting a tin can of a civic is a superior auto. we can agree to disagree and in two years, i'll turn in my jag after spending basically zero $$ to use and enjoy it while you can worry about gas prices and whether a $12K econo box will last for another ten years. maybe it will, but why would anyone want it to? i'll take my little commuter car jag and its perfect performance to date, and i'll be happy, but how about laying off the insults and heavy breathing. it really doesn't have a place here, does it? now go enjoy your front wheel drive penalty box

this is like the guy who says his saturn vue is as good, if not better than, a landcruiser because it doesn't require birfield maintenance and gets better mpgs.

 

[reffug]

thats' awhole bunch of insults, given that you're suggesting a tin can of a civic is a superior auto. we can agree to disagree but how about laying off the insults and heavy breathing. it really doesn't have a place here, does it? now go enjoy your front wheel drive penalty box

Ace, I realized after I typed it that unless you know me and the way I sometimes type this could be considered rather inflamatory. That wasn't my intent. I sometimes just have a little too much fun when touching the keyboard and couldn't resist the civic jag comparison. It was all in fun sorry if you took offense. :whoops: Maybe we can hook up someday and the s on me. Later

 

[ace10]

no prob. i enjoy debating cars as much as the next guy, i just don't like it when it turns quasi-personal (or so it took it).

now back to bashing RR's and traction control devices...

 

[reffug]

no prob. i enjoy debating cars as much as the next guy, i just don't like it when it turns quasi-personal (or so it took it).

now back to bashing RR's and traction control devices...

Agreed. bashing RR's is lots of fun. Have a cousin who sells them and I drive him insane.

 

[uzj100]

Just like the sticker on the back of my 100 says, "Range Rover Recovery Vehicle"


uzj100

 

[tabraha]

Where might one procure said bumpersticker????

 

[reffug]

Just like the sticker on the back of my 100 says, "Range Rover Recovery Vehicle"


uzj100

I've got one on the back of my 60 that says "Friends don't let Friends drive J**P's" wish I could still get those.

 

[uzj100]

I got the sticker like 2 years ago for free. I would try a google search. It is actually a very simple white letter sticker that sticks to the inside of the window. I have it right underneath the third brake light. Maybe someone could make some up and sell them.

uzj100