Looking for opinions: To ignore or to repair the KDSS

[Acrad]

The KDSS control piece isn’t usually the leak point from what I have seen.. it is generally the stabilizers on each end of the vehicle.

It’s all really speculation on issue without codes though if no leaks present

Behind that cover it could be massively corroded on the electrical. That area can hang onto dirt, small rocks, sand, etc,

 

[cmattina]

The KDSS control piece isn’t usually the leak point from what I have seen.. it is generally the stabilizers on each end of the vehicle.

It’s all really speculation on issue without codes though if no leaks present

Behind that cover it could be massively corroded on the electrical. That area can hang onto dirt, small rocks, sand, etc,

Thanks. it sounds like it might be easier and cheaper to change one of those out, so was just prepping for worse case scenario. As for the cover, the vehicle fits the bill of being corroded under the cover because it was undercoated a lot in salt country, and the owner was not the type to ever remove the cover to clean. So as good the frame looks, it could be corroded under there.

I can get photos of the stabilizers when the seller responds, but for all i know he will wipe it down first.

In terms of codes and this and that, please appreciate the perspective of someone who lives 2000km away from the vehicle, and having their wife who is 1.5 hours (one way) from the vehicle. All in a hot vehicle market where anything decent sells quick. If i were there i'd pull the codes, pull the cover, and be done with it. The only real data I have is that photo above and the seller's admission that the "light sometimes comes on when its cold, but is generally not on"

 

[cmattina]

Okay, mechanic is looking at vehicle. It is the mechanic the seller normally uses, but they're all generally honest people (presumably not 100%, but mostly). The mechanic said the code is low pressure in the kdss system (not surprising). So, this is likely an internment code that is confirmation of *a* issues with the system. The seller said, and i believe him (perhaps erroneously) that he had never noticed any issue with ride quality, and i specifically asked about on-ramps and off-ramps... because where he lives, those are the only real areas he'll feel body role or handling.

I spent a lot of time researching the system and I believe it can be done at home with the special tool that can be bought on amazon. It really seems just like any other hydraulic system but with higher pressure and requiring the quick disconnect.

I think the tricky part is not introducing air accidentally, meaning having to start over.

 

[xychromosome]

Looking forward to your write up after servicing the KDDSS. Can you provide the link to that tool you mentioned?

 

[Acrad]

Not likely to need everything down the road but the main pieces if you can’t find in salvage yard. I’d be tempted to go new though. It doesn’t look like a bleeding process one would want to do all the time looking at the FSM.

Accumulator

https://www.oemvehicleparts.com/oem-parts/lexus-control-valve-4800660031

Front

https://www.oemvehicleparts.com/oem-parts/lexus-hydraulic-cylinder-4800760023

Rear

https://www.oemvehicleparts.com/oem-parts/lexus-hydraulic-cylinder-4888660032

Depending on what you had to replace I’d replace any stabilizer bushings while I was in there.

KDSS Fluid is the same as in the LX AHC system

 

[Acrad]

Looks like 6 liters to bleed system. If one was fine with parts cost definitely something one would want to do DIY,… I can’t imagine what most would charge for labor on this if a significant amount of the system had to be replaced.

https://toyotaparts.ourismantoyotaofrichmond.com/oem-parts/toyota-ahc-suspension-fluid-888601805

 

[cmattina]

Looking forward to your write up after servicing the KDDSS. Can you provide the link to that tool you mentioned?

This is the tool: https://www.amazon.com/KTTOOL-System-Hydraulic-Filling-Machine/dp/B0DGD5M691

I know it looks Chinese (i think there is literally Chinese writing on it), but China does a lot of business in the countries that have a lot of KDSS vehicles, and China itself does have a lot too. So it makes sense. People say it works!

 

[cmattina]

Not likely to need everything down the road but the main pieces if you can’t find in salvage yard. I’d be tempted to go new though. It doesn’t look like a bleeding process one would want to do all the time looking at the FSM.

Accumulator

https://www.oemvehicleparts.com/oem-parts/lexus-control-valve-4800660031

Front

https://www.oemvehicleparts.com/oem-parts/lexus-hydraulic-cylinder-4800760023

Rear

https://www.oemvehicleparts.com/oem-parts/lexus-hydraulic-cylinder-4888660032

Depending on what you had to replace I’d replace any stabilizer bushings while I was in there.

KDSS Fluid is the same as in the LX AHC system

@Acrad Thanks for all your use replies an information (as well as everyone else). The bleed procedure is what gave me some promise

Did you see these sources for parts, even cheaper:
accumulator is 850usd: Toyota 48006-60031 (4800660031) HOUSING ASSY, STABILIZER CONTROL W/ACCUMULATOR - https://www.amayama.com/en/part/toyota/4800660031
stabilizer front is 1000usd Toyota 48007-60020 (4800760020) CYLINDER ASSY, FRONT STABILIZER W/TUBE - https://www.amayama.com/en/part/toyota/4800760020
stabilizer rear is 500: Toyota 48886-60030 (4888660030) CYLINDER, REAR STABILIZER CONTROL - https://www.amayama.com/en/part/toyota/4888660030
and tool is 300usd: GENUINE TOYOTA LEXUS HOUSING ASSY, STABILIZER CONTROL W/ACCUM KDSS 48006-60031 | eBay - https://www.ebay.com/itm/374374632344

As for labour, i called a shop in Minnesota (not far from me - 10 hours) that are not a dealer but advertise their KDSS abilities. They say about 12 hours labour and 5 hours of that is bleeding. Another expensive part is the lines and paying someone to install. You're certainly right, bleeding is not an every day thing, more like once every 5-10 years!

As for our path forward... we'll probably buy the vehicle and drive as is. When the time comes, we can hopefully find someone to do a couple welds so we can convert to 4runner set up. I'm not much of a welder, but i think we know some people. and the rest should be i dunno, 600 in parts?

 

[cmattina]

Apache off road sells some brackets for a reasonable price. They also provide a list of all the parts needed. They mentioned that KDSS and nonKDSS 4Runners have identical spindles. Seems to be the way to go! Some nutserts, and a tiny bit of welding... I have seen the post on the 4unner forum of a guy just replacing the hydraulic rams with straight bars... i guess as a bandaid that is okay.

APACHE OFFROAD KDSS DELETE / REAR SWAY BAR ADAPTATION BRACKETS FOR TOYOTA 8″ / 8.2″ | 03-23 LEXUS GX, 10-24 4RUNNER | Apache Offroad

apacheoffroad.com

 

[Cold Iron]

One more post, maybe some can clarify this for certainty. I have read on some authoritative sources that the KDSS and non-KDSS 4Runner have identical spindles. I have also read that the GX460 has identical Spindles to the KDSS 4Runner.... However, I was wondering if anyone can confirm that the GX460 does indeed have spindles that can handle a non-KDSS set up

Apache off road sells some brackets for a reasonable price. They also provide a list of all the parts needed. They mentioned that KDSS and nonKDSS 4Runners have identical spindles

APACHE OFFROAD KDSS DELETE / REAR SWAY BAR ADAPTATION BRACKETS FOR TOYOTA 8″ / 8.2″ | 03-23 LEXUS GX, 10-24 4RUNNER | Apache Offroad

apacheoffroad.com

Couple of weeks ago seen a post on Facebook GX 460 group where someone asked what they were missing on their front spindle and put up a picture of a threaded hole on their control arm. Responses said it was for sway bar on non KDSS vehicles. Just looked and couldn't find it and too dark yet to go look and I already took a shower I'm headed into town in a bit to get picture for my drivers license. Renewed enhanced license so that I can cross into Canada without a damn passport.

But searching for it I did find the Apache off road delete kit but a different landing page on exit offroad. They list the GX 460 and all the Toyota parts needed if you scroll down toward the bottom. So pretty sure that would be an option if you want to go that route and yes you do have the option to convert to non KDSS. With the Gold Mine in Red Lake finding a welder to weld the brackets isn't going to be much of an issue. Welding a thin broken aluminum trailer tailgate in the bush is another issue, don't ask how I know LOL.

Others have done the KDSS delete but information seems thin. Lot of talk about getting the KDSS light to go off and some say pull the fuse to the light and others say unsolder the light from the back of the dash. But one person said all you have to do is pull the rear connector to the KDSS computer system.

Be more concerned about why loosing fluid and most likely you are right it is behind the shield and it is rusted. If that is so did the PO also treat the inside of the frame and body? It is always the rust you can't see that worries me.

With 130K miles on it I'd be concerned about the radiator and water pump they are due if not already replaced. And getting close to the Valley Plate leak. I'd make sure that she has the engine coolant topped off before heading back. That is a 24+ hour drive not counting stops for fuel and there aren't a lot of gas stations even on the Trans Canada Hwy. I mainly do it on the US side when I go back "home".

In the 70's used to cross at Buffalo and go to Toronto. At the border on the way back when asked if I had anything to declare I always said no. With a trunk full of Labatt Blue and Cuban cigars. Would drive 8 hours straight North until the roads gave out to hunt Caribou. Now half way across the US I still go 8 hours straight North until the roads give out, at Red Lake, to grouse hunt. That East to West route is a LONG haul especially on the Canadian side. Ontario is a huge province.

Good luck and safe travels to your wife!

 

[cmattina]

The apache kit and few 4runner parts is 100% the way to go. Otherwise i dont think we would have bought

 

[Cold Iron]

Ouch!

What about the GX with 61K miles on it for $24K? I know that is a lot more money but if that is a Canadian Executive model it would be a hell of a deal! Even if it isn't an Executive still not bad given the mileage. Provided rust hasn't gained a foothold. Got my 19 Lux last year with 40K on it and it had spent winters in Texas and summers in Mn. so it had never seen salt which is why I picked it. Spent a lot more than $24K for it.

And now you know that a KDSS delete is possible and not that expensive. But yes rust in the Northland the struggle is real. 4x4 shop near me specializes in rust repair on Jeeps especially frames, it isn't just Toyota. Don't toss that towel in yet, just saying.

 

[cmattina]

Ouch!

What about the GX with 61K miles on it for $24K? I know that is a lot more money but if that is a Canadian Executive model it would be a hell of a deal! Even if it isn't an Executive still not bad given the mileage. Provided rust hasn't gained a foothold. Got my 19 Lux last year with 40K on it and it had spent winters in Texas and summers in Mn. so it had never seen salt which is why I picked it. Spent a lot more than $24K for it.

And now you know that a KDSS delete is possible and not that expensive. But yes rust in the Northland the struggle is real. 4x4 shop near me specializes in rust repair on Jeeps especially frames, it isn't just Toyota. Don't toss that towel in yet, just saying.

FYI in case you saw my rant, the seller came through and deposit made. Though i am certain he had cold feed.

The one with 61k miles was nice... but never undercoated and although there was no kdss light, it actually had more corrosion on the module than this higher miles one. It was a tough choice between the two. The low miles one would have come to $38000cad after tax and the dealer could not provide any maintenance records and for some reason the carfax didnt show them (who buys a brand new lexus and doesnt get it serviced at dealer where the information would then show in the carfax). The one we put a deposit on will come to $22000cad after tax and has great maintenance records. We chose that one because we are kind of hard on our vehicles and if we spend the 38000, it'd hurt more when we back into it and dent it... lol They were both well priced options. this one is cheaper and hopefully we can just drive it rough and not worry too much when it gets scratched and dented.

 

[Acrad]

Congrats!

Seems overall a rare vehicle in Canada

Lexus GX Sales Figures

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

 

[cmattina]

Congrats!

Seems overall a rare vehicle in Canada

Lexus GX Sales Figures

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

View attachment 3881986

And individuals and dealers alike want an arm a leg for them

 

[avi ensafi]

so i had the same issue this week brought to dealer and the

Stabilizer Housing Sub-Assembly 48006-60031 is leaking . got a quote 16k cad to replace everything . bought to local mechanic he said buy the assembly and i will do it he has the equipment for it . mostly due not rust and rocks stuck behind shield that damaged the unit . also i saw liquid under car from drivers side . see pic​

 

[cmattina]

so i had the same issue this week brought to dealer and the

Stabilizer Housing Sub-Assembly 48006-60031 is leaking . got a quote 16k cad to replace everything . bought to local mechanic he said buy the assembly and i will do it he has the equipment for it . mostly due not rust and rocks stuck behind shield that damaged the unit . also i saw liquid under car from drivers side . see pic​

View attachment 3882491

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How much did Local mechanic charge?

 

[r2m]

Do you see the potential sign of leakage at those bolts on the shield? But yeah, it's as clean as it can get

No, but I don't do my own service. It's cheaper and doesn't take time out of my day for my mechanic to do it.
But... I have an excellent mechanic and he keeps me apprised of any leaks, or anything that may have potential of being an issue and he has never pointed out an issue with that. So I guess to answer your question, I/he does not see a potential sign of leakage.

 

[Splat]

I have an excellent mechanic and he keeps me apprised of any leaks, or anything that may have potential of being an issue and he has never pointed out an issue with that. So I guess to answer your question, I/he does not see a potential sign of leakage.

cmattina thought he saw seepage, indicating a potential leak, around the bolt holes in the photo he posted of the car he wanted to buy. He was asking if you also saw leakage in that photo, not whether the bolts on your car were showing any leakage.

 

[r2m]

cmattina thought he saw seepage, indicating a potential leak, around the bolt holes in the photo he posted of the car he wanted to buy. He was asking if you also saw leakage in that photo, not whether the bolts on your car were showing any leakage.

Ahhh... No, personally I do not. But the best way to tell is swipe one's finger across and see what comes off.
If it's moist, damp dirt, yeah, probably some seepage, but unless it's "wet" and/or dripping, for me, I wouldn't worry about it.
If it's only moist/damp, in it's lift time you will never have your oil level be low.