Limp mode advice -'17 LC (1 Viewer)

[Dawilli99]

Guys,
New LC owner (but long time Sequioa/4Runner owner -25 years with terrific reliability ) who is hoping for some advice and insight on some problems I've had with my 2-month old LC.
About a month after buying the car I noticed the parking lights would stay on at odd times. The parking light setting is above the auto setting on the light stick, but I never use it. It seemed related to having opened the rear hatch but it was hard to replicate. Despite being in "auto mode" for lights, I know of at least one time when the parking lights were on for 5 hours. It was hard to get them to go off, though I later realized that mashing "lock" on the key fob 2-3 times would turn them off. I couldn't explain it but wondered if it was related to the non-OEM remote starter the dealer installed when I purchased the car. Regardless, it made me extra careful when ever I left the car to ensure the lights were off.

I returned from a 3 day trip only to be greeted by a dead battery at the airport. To say I was po'd was an understatement. The car was 6 weeks old. Unfortunately it got Worse from there. The car jump started easily but I immediately got several error messages that engine power was limited, the brakes were offline, and the trac4 light and engine service lights were on. This was, as I later learned, an indication that the car was in "limp" mode. Essentially you step on the gas and...nothing happens. The car would roll at about 15-20 mph but I really doubted it would go up hill because flooring the gas does nothing. I went about a mile on a flat road near the airport but realized there was no way I was going to make it home. I pulled over, contacted Toyota safety Connect, and had the car towed. I did try restarting the car a few times with no change. I left it off a couple minutes between starts. I called the dealer to see if there was any way I could get out of limp mode on my own and they said "no". I was confident that this was related to a drained battery and not an actual mechanical issue so I was hopeful here would be a way to reset it. So I stood there and watched my new $$$$ LC get towed away. So much for reliability.

It was taken to the nearest dealer. When they finally got to it several hours later it started fine and was not in limp mode. This suggests the problem times out though I don't know the time required. The dealer did check the battery and determined there was a higher than expected drain while the car was off. They were suspicious of the non OEM starter also, but wouldn't touch it because they didn't install it.

Has anyone else experienced limp mode from a drained battery? It seems like a real programming flaw to me and makes me paranoid that it will reoccur whenever the battery runs down. Any problems from non-OEM remote starters? At his point I'd happily take it off because I can't afford for this to happen again. Thanks for any insights you can provide.

 

[1shetan]

tag, but I am curious or missed something , why would they install an non-OEM starter on a new car?

 

[Yossarian]

A couple of questions. Was this a new 2017? You stated 1st that it had a non-OEM starter, then called it a remote starter. "If" this was a new 2017, why in the world would it have a non-OEM part on it?

 

[Dawilli99]

They have quite a process for running through vehicle accessories now after you decide to purchase. They pushed the non-OEM starter because it had better range and a smaller fob than the Toyota add on. It's not a bad unit and other than the recent issues, seemed to work fine. The OEM starter added at the dealer is a large fob and is not integrated with your main fob. They actually showed 3 or 4 different non-OEM starter options.

 

[Dawilli99]

A couple of questions. Was this a new 2017? You stated 1st that it had a non-OEM starter, then called it a remote starter. "If" this was a new 2017, why in the world would it have a non-OEM part on it?

Yep, new car. They run you through the "accessories desk" after you commit to buy and can add a starter, window tint on the front windows, mats, invisible bra, etc. it is a very different process than when I bought my last Toyota in '10 but, to be clear, these are dealer installed accessories ( though I suspect they have local specialty shops do the installs).

 

[Yossarian]

So a new 2017 LC that the dealer at the time of sale installed an aftermarket "remote start" option, is that correct? I still don't know why they would offer a non-OEM part, not that OEM is the only way to go, just look at all the aftermarket stuff installed on this forum. The concern is that what was installed may have affected the vehicles reliability? One big unknown.

Time to contact the dealer you purchased it from. Good luck.

 

[gaijin]

They have quite a process for running through vehicle accessories now after you decide to purchase. They pushed the non-OEM starter because it had better range and a smaller fob than the Toyota add on. It's not a bad unit and other than the recent issues, seemed to work fine. The OEM starter added at the dealer is a large fob and is not integrated with your main fob. They actually showed 3 or 4 different non-OEM starter options.

Things must have changed dramatically for 2017. It may not still be the case, but here is the OEM key fob for my 2013 LC:

The only difference between my key fob which has Toyota OEM Remote Start and a key fob that does not have remote start is the small sticker that says, "Engine Starter." When the Toyota OEM Remote Start capability is added to a new vehicle there is no modification to the key fob. Remote start is triggered by pressing the Lock button 3 times.

Either this system is no longer available from Toyota, which is entirely possible, or your dealer was being less than truthful with you, also a possibility. Can any other 2017 LC owners lend their comments?

HTH

 

[gaijin]

About a month after buying the car I noticed the parking lights would stay on at odd times. The parking light setting is above the auto setting on the light stick, but I never use it. It seemed related to having opened the rear hatch but it was hard to replicate. Despite being in "auto mode" for lights, I know of at least one time when the parking lights were on for 5 hours. It was hard to get them to go off, though I later realized that mashing "lock" on the key fob 2-3 times would turn them off. I couldn't explain it but wondered if it was related to the non-OEM remote starter the dealer installed when I purchased the car. Regardless, it made me extra careful when ever I left the car to ensure the lights were off.

Again, please ignore if no longer the case for 2017 LC's, but on my 2013 the light stalk is configured differently than you describe. Here's a pic of mine:

The pic shows the lights in the OFF position. One click up is the Parking Lights setting. One more click up is the Headlights On setting and finally above that is the AUTO lights setting.

So on mine, rather than being "above the auto setting" on the light stalk, the parking lights setting is just above the OFF setting, or two clicks below the AUTO setting.

I have noticed with mine that if I set the lights to Parking Lights while the truck is turned off, the lights sometimes stay on when the truck is subsequently turned off. However, if the lights are set to Parking Lights while the truck is running, the parking lights turn off when the truck is turned off.

HTH

 

[Sandroad]

They have quite a process for running through vehicle accessories now after you decide to purchase. They pushed the non-OEM starter because it had better range and a smaller fob than the Toyota add on. It's not a bad unit and other than the recent issues, seemed to work fine. The OEM starter added at the dealer is a large fob and is not integrated with your main fob. They actually showed 3 or 4 different non-OEM starter options.

I'm afraid your selling dealer was mis-informed. The '17 OEM remote starter has a completely integrated fob (all one unit) and it's reasonably small. I suspect the dealer you had it towed to is correct and it's the aftermarket remote starter causing the battery drain. I do wonder about the limp mode from the dead battery (if that was cause-effect). That doesn't seem right and I hope Toyota will fix that programming, if it's the case. Is there a way to make sure Toyota knows about your problem? The dealer may not report it since they won't work on the aftermarket remote start.

 

[1shetan]

Something is not right here with this dealer and their sale. my 17 is a month old, the remote starter was an option, and confirmed as a Toyota option(probably a software program more than hardware, in that case a good money maker). That aside, the key fob is a toyota one and you hit lock three times.

So they may have sold you a smaller aftermarket key fob programmed for your car.....and no other mods to your car...therefore not the source of the problem, or...on our 2014 4runner limited, the dealer tried and tried to sell us on the better alarm/staring system, it was a small black box with flasing led mounted under the dash, that they plugged in a black bypass, to disable it when they realized they were about to lose the sale. I had to look at that ugly thing every day i got in it. Mind you the car had a standard fact alarm.

If they installed an aftermarket remote starting unit, it can be the problem (my .02)since the system flashes the lights, etc etc. in your case possibly causing the electrical gremlin. Years back when we installed these to customize our cars, they involved much splicing and cutting. I would contact that dealer and get some answers, type of warranty,who can check it, can it be removed, what brand etc.

 

[GordJ]

As you are probably aware, the lights don't shut off if a door is open. I killed my battery more than once by not closing the door. Perhaps you have a bad door switch? Is there a door open warning on the dash? Just a thought.

 

[Dawilli99]

Again, please ignore if no longer the case for 2017 LC's, but on my 2013 the light stalk is configured differently than you describe. Here's a pic of mine:

The pic shows the lights in the OFF position. One click up is the Parking Lights setting. One more click up is the Headlights On setting and finally above that is the AUTO lights setting.

So on mine, rather than being "above the auto setting" on the light stalk, the parking lights setting is just above the OFF setting, or two clicks below the AUTO setting.

I have noticed with mine that if I set the lights to Parking Lights while the truck is turned off, the lights sometimes stay on when the truck is subsequently turned off. However, if the lights are set to Parking Lights while the truck is running, the parking lights turn off when the truck is turned off.

HTH

Yes, they have changed the light stick. The bottom setting is now DRL off, then auto, then parking, then lights on settings. There is no true "off" setting. I like the older setup better. I drove a new loaner Camry and it was similar to my settings. While I initially thought that maybe I'd left the car in the parking light mode, the last few times it was definitely in auto. Turning the stick to any setting, including DRL off did not turn off the parking lights. I had to start and stop the car in auto to get them to go off. It seemed really strange.

 

[Dawilli99]

As you are probably aware, the lights don't shut off if a door is open. I killed my battery more than once by not closing the door. Perhaps you have a bad door switch? Is there a door open warning on the dash? Just a thought.

There has not been a dash indicator on but I agree a bad sensor could be the cause. I will have my dealer check the rear hatch because twice it has happened after working in back of the car. That said, I did not notice the internal overhead lights on when I noticed the parking lights on. Normally those stay on and drain the battery when a door is ajar. I have not seen the parking lights stay on for an ajar door in my prior toyotas, just the internal overhead lights.

 

[Dawilli99]

Something is not right here with this dealer and their sale. my 17 is a month old, the remote starter was an option, and confirmed as a Toyota option(probably a software program more than hardware, in that case a good money maker). That aside, the key fob is a toyota one and you hit lock three times.

So they may have sold you a smaller aftermarket key fob programmed for your car.....and no other mods to your car...therefore not the source of the problem, or...on our 2014 4runner limited, the dealer tried and tried to sell us on the better alarm/staring system, it was a small black box with flasing led mounted under the dash, that they plugged in a black bypass, to disable it when they realized they were about to lose the sale. I had to look at that ugly thing every day i got in it. Mind you the car had a standard fact alarm.

If they installed an aftermarket remote starting unit, it can be the problem (my .02)since the system flashes the lights, etc etc. in your case possibly causing the electrical gremlin. Years back when we installed these to customize our cars, they involved much splicing and cutting. I would contact that dealer and get some answers, type of warranty,who can check it, can it be removed, what brand etc.

Yes, it is definitely going back to the dealer this week. If they can't assure me this remote starter isn't draining the battery I will have them remove it and install an OEM model. It's a nice feature but I don't want to end up in limp mode(wish they hadn't named it that!) again.

 

[Dawilli99]

I'm afraid your selling dealer was mis-informed. The '17 OEM remote starter has a completely integrated fob (all one unit) and it's reasonably small. I suspect the dealer you had it towed to is correct and it's the aftermarket remote starter causing the battery drain. I do wonder about the limp mode from the dead battery (if that was cause-effect). That doesn't seem right and I hope Toyota will fix that programming, if it's the case. Is there a way to make sure Toyota knows about your problem? The dealer may not report it since they won't work on the aftermarket remote start.

Thanks for the insight on the OEM starter. I wonder now if it wasn't a $$ issue for the dealer - they really try to make money on the accessories and there is less bargaining tHan in past times. I agree it would be a problem if the drained battery was the trigger for limp mode. I will bring it up with the dealer because I do think it would warrant a fix. It really disables he car.

 

[Dawilli99]

So a new 2017 LC that the dealer at the time of sale installed an aftermarket "remote start" option, is that correct? I still don't know why they would offer a non-OEM part, not that OEM is the only way to go, just look at all the aftermarket stuff installed on this forum. The concern is that what was installed may have affected the vehicles reliability? One big unknown.

Time to contact the dealer you purchased it from. Good luck.

Thanks. They are going to cHeck it his week. I will see what they say.

 

[linuxgod]

A couple comments:

First, the headlights and/or parking lights will stay on for a period of time after you turn the engine off, even if you lock the door. It's a "convenience" feature (helpful I suppose if you live or park somewhere in which there are no lights available). The amount of time they stay on is configurable from 0 seconds up to ~60 seconds (I can't recall the actual #). Unless something in 2017 changed there's no "permanently on" setting I'm aware of, but it's worth double checking. As you observed, if you press the lock button 2 times in succession they will turn off instantly.

Second, the Toyota remote starter is an add-on that gets installed behind the glovebox IIRC. The vehicle is pre-wired, and it's basically a module that gets plugged in. Once you have it, the normal Toyota fob becomes the remote starter. To start, you press lock 2x and then press it a 3rd time in succession and hold it for about 3 seconds. When you release it the vehicle starts. FWIW the Toyota remote starter is in fact crap. The range is very very short (<100', maybe less), the vehicle shuts off automatically after 10 minutes (non-configurable), there's no way to determine if the remote start attempt worked because the remote is one-way, and as soon as you unlock or open any of the doors the engine shuts off. The Python/Clifford/etc alarms are all significantly better except (a) they require you to use and carry a separate remote, and (b) they require tapping some of the wiring.

Like others have mentioned I would highly suspect the aftermarket (non-OEM) remote starter is draining the battery and causing your lighting problems. It could be a bad relay, or a bad wiring job (loose tap or tapping the wrong wire), or a bad unit. Also depending on your aftermarket remote starter if it's the kind which requires you to stash a spare key in the vehicle it could be simply that your truck always thinks you and your key are inside the vehicle and thus never turns off the lights. Either way I'd start by having the original dealer disabling or removing the remote starter and see if the problem goes away.

Finally I wouldn't expect the vehicle to go into limp mode if the battery is drained, but it's possible.

 

[MilkmanVX]

Has anyone else experienced limp mode from a drained battery? It seems like a real programming flaw to me and makes me paranoid that it will reoccur whenever the battery runs down.

Not limp mode exactly -but weird stuff -check engine light and a bunch of other stuff just wouldn't cooperate or even initiate ... i once drained the battery because i had my doors open (interior lights on) and stereo playing (mind you, i have dual batts -but had not linked them) anyway, once the starter batt drained .. i linked the dual batt and it started right up .. however, because it had drained, i was getting all sorts of error messages (and some programs only come back fully online after a few miles of driving). to clear up the fault codes (since i knew i did not have a check engine light on prior to drain), i disconnected both batts -gave it a few minutes to remove the non-existent error messages -then connected and restarted... so i suspect yours was the same-ish issue -to the extreme -car telling you to check everything since it has no clue why the batt died and since a lot of the systems are reliant on the batt -jump starting it does not clear them -but a straight up disconnect/reset seems to be able to (or passage of time).

now to find the source of your drain ...

 

[RobRed]

The errors after dead battery are fairly normal. The number of start cycles to clear them varies on the errors. A simple scan gauge would have been able to clear them.

The OEM remote start module PT398-60160

2016 Toyota Land Cruiser Remote Engine Starter - ToyotaPartsDeal.com

 

[Dawilli99]

A couple comments:

First, the headlights and/or parking lights will stay on for a period of time after you turn the engine off, even if you lock the door. It's a "convenience" feature (helpful I suppose if you live or park somewhere in which there are no lights available). The amount of time they stay on is configurable from 0 seconds up to ~60 seconds (I can't recall the actual #). Unless something in 2017 changed there's no "permanently on" setting I'm aware of, but it's worth double checking. As you observed, if you press the lock button 2 times in succession they will turn off instantly.

Second, the Toyota remote starter is an add-on that gets installed behind the glovebox IIRC. The vehicle is pre-wired, and it's basically a module that gets plugged in. Once you have it, the normal Toyota fob becomes the remote starter. To start, you press lock 2x and then press it a 3rd time in succession and hold it for about 3 seconds. When you release it the vehicle starts. FWIW the Toyota remote starter is in fact crap. The range is very very short (<100', maybe less), the vehicle shuts off automatically after 10 minutes (non-configurable), there's no way to determine if the remote start attempt worked because the remote is one-way, and as soon as you unlock or open any of the doors the engine shuts off. The Python/Clifford/etc alarms are all significantly better except (a) they require you to use and carry a separate remote, and (b) they require tapping some of the wiring.

Like others have mentioned I would highly suspect the aftermarket (non-OEM) remote starter is draining the battery and causing your lighting problems. It could be a bad relay, or a bad wiring job (loose tap or tapping the wrong wire), or a bad unit. Also depending on your aftermarket remote starter if it's the kind which requires you to stash a spare key in the vehicle it could be simply that your truck always thinks you and your key are inside the vehicle and thus never turns off the lights. Either way I'd start by having the original dealer disabling or removing the remote starter and see if the problem goes away.

Finally I wouldn't expect the vehicle to go into limp mode if the battery is drained, but it's possible.

Thanks for the clarification on the OEM system. I had one on my Sequioa and this sounds similar. Should have just gone with that as I don't use it that often anyway.

The headlight pattern seemed different than what you get when you stop the car in auto. I tried putting the light stick in parking mode and turning off the car but they go off right away. In auto mode the headlamps stay on about a minute. It was weird walking into the garage at 2 am and seeing the lights on. I've had a hard time re-creating it.

Thanks for the starter clarification. I will take the car to the dealer today and get it sorted out.