Jim_Chow
V8_Fan
r3run33 said:
kdss better then lc or lx?
- Thread starter r3run33
- Start date
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First Toy,
The torsion bar design drives me crazy because I'd love to bolt up some KINGS or Donahoes and be done with it.
Oh well, I'll figure something out eventually.
The torsion bar design drives me crazy because I'd love to bolt up some KINGS or Donahoes and be done with it.
Oh well, I'll figure something out eventually.
Back in 1999 (i think), FourWheeler tested TLC100 in their FourWheeler competition (against Jeep GC, Land Rover Disco II, etc.). It's RTI was quite impressive. I have been following these tests since that time. TLC100 has the best RTI of any IFS-equipped SUV/truck. The only one that has equal it is the new GX470 with KDSS. The normal GX and 4runner is much less than TLC100/GX470 KDSS.
The TLC100 has a better RTI than most solid axle front SUVs too...like Jeep Grand Cherokee (the previous model). Too major SUV/truck that beats the TLC100 is the Land Rover Discovery Series II and Dodge Powerwagon (both solid axle SUVs).
The Range Rover with crosslinking shocks have never been tested by FourWheeler...so, i am dying to see what it can do on RTI ramp. We should get an idea of it when FW tests the LR3.
Torsion bars, IMO, gives the TLC the wheel travel advantage over GX coils. My '02 4runner had coils and it did not flex nearly as good as my brother's LX470 front suspension.
So, TLC100 does not need KDSS since it's RTI is already impressive.
As for things being tucked underneath, the TLC has a high step-in height because of it. The 4runner/GX is for mass production...aka, appeal to more consumer (tall & short, male & female). Therefore, the step-in height is a lot lower. And when the floor is lower, you must compromise with the fuel tank and other parts underneath. In addition, to maintain a flat floor in the 2nd row, you cannot have a clean underbody.
The TLC100 has a better RTI than most solid axle front SUVs too...like Jeep Grand Cherokee (the previous model). Too major SUV/truck that beats the TLC100 is the Land Rover Discovery Series II and Dodge Powerwagon (both solid axle SUVs).
The Range Rover with crosslinking shocks have never been tested by FourWheeler...so, i am dying to see what it can do on RTI ramp. We should get an idea of it when FW tests the LR3.
Torsion bars, IMO, gives the TLC the wheel travel advantage over GX coils. My '02 4runner had coils and it did not flex nearly as good as my brother's LX470 front suspension.
So, TLC100 does not need KDSS since it's RTI is already impressive.
As for things being tucked underneath, the TLC has a high step-in height because of it. The 4runner/GX is for mass production...aka, appeal to more consumer (tall & short, male & female). Therefore, the step-in height is a lot lower. And when the floor is lower, you must compromise with the fuel tank and other parts underneath. In addition, to maintain a flat floor in the 2nd row, you cannot have a clean underbody.
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Thai said:
*100-series RTI was 563
*100 vs Range Rover app and dep anges? Shouldn't be compared. The RR is a 5-seater and the 80/100 is 7-8.
*Pic 1 from yesterday shows articulation, though not at full flex. While this was not part of the trail, pics 2 and 3 are. The rocks were huge, especially the one that had to be climbed in order to pass (top left in pic 2 and bottom right in pic 3) Tire size and clearance are ultra improtant on the AZ trails. 31-inchers on a G500 or anything else woth that wheelbase won't cut it. Sorry about that.
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ShottsUZJ100 said:
Yet, another dig at my truck...for no apparent reason.
So, do you compare the TLC to Navigators and Escalades only then??? So, i guess Range Rover and G500 should not be compared with you guys either. Oh, how about Touareg?? Didn't you recently have a huge thread comparing the two??!!
Doesn't LX and Gx have the ability to raise the butt up?? In the LX you can improve approach and departure angles too.Clearance is excellent in your truck...i am jealous. Cool looking TLC. Maybe i can persuade my brother to modify his LX like yours. I love BFG AT KO. However, i may be going to Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor next.
But on some trails around here (TX and Colorado), there's nothing like having full lockers front and rear. There's no subsitute for them. No need to wait for wheelspin, no need to wait for you to lose traction, no spinning tires. Proactive system is a good thing. You should try them sometimes.
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Thai said:Yet, another dig at my truck...for no apparent reason.
So, do you compare the TLC to Navigators and Escalades only then??? So, i guess Range Rover and G500 should not be compared with you guys either. Oh, how about Touareg?? Didn't you recently have a huge thread comparing the two??!!
Clearance is excellent in your truck...i am jealous. Cool looking TLC. Maybe i can persuade my brother to modify his LX like yours.
But on some trails around here (TX and Colorado), there's nothing like having full lockers front and rear. There's no subsitute for them.
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This is my last post on this thread. Thai, with all respect:
Nobody dug at your truck.....it's a wheelbase vs tire size vs clearance vs rock size thing. A stock 100 shouldn't be on that trail (because it has 31's and 112" wheelbase, similar to a yours...get it?)
Sure you compare the 100 to Expo's and Esca's......but I was refering to (read it) app and dep angles, not overall wheeling.
Many rigs have triple lockers (like mine). So what? Heck, the triple locker-TRAC combo is the best. I've went places with TRAC where lockers didn't move me or they were dangerous to use.
Oh, and thanks for your comments on my truck.
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e9999 said:
Where's the videos/pics? (And yes, as I've said, the TRAC in the GX/Runner is not programmed to be as tightly controlled as the 100)
He didn't drive it right- looks like he used a bit more momentum than atrac to get over the twisties.e9999 said:
The atrac has a learning curve but once you figure it out it, it's really good. It will even "lockup" (meaning activate atrac) on the wheel in the air-the 100 is the same way. That doesn't necesarraly mean it will create traction tho!
Oh when it first starts up the climb in the video, you can see the atrac working- the rear wheel stops every 1/4 turn or so.
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ShottsUZJ100 said:
Video is Post #6 on this thread
How do you think changing tire sizes has effected TRAC? Do you get more wheel spin with 35s than you would experience with 31s?
NMuzj100 said:
Oh....that video. I thought somebody posted some of their own. I see nothing on that video that shows a lack of traction. On the one section the pass rear kicked out a rock and spun though the speed of the vehicle is fairly high. Had the driver taken the same line at half that speed the system would have activated far more in order to keep it's speed. Even locked I often spin wheels like that while climbing. Check out these videos:
http://shottscruisers.smugmug.com/gallery/612778/1/26005858/Original
http://shottscruisers.smugmug.com/gallery/612778/1/26005853/Original
Don't you hate how the camera takes 10 or 15 degrees off the slope of any hill.
NMuzj100 said:
Vids and pics....doesn't do 4WD-ing justice. We'll see how the DVD turns out.
NMuzj100 said:
It surprises me to hear that different tires messed up Thai's G500. I find that odd???
On the 100, I've went from stock to 33's and then 35's. I've never noticed any changes to date. Maybe because the system's so tight????
Recently I did experience VSC kicking in on VERY twisty 25MPH road. It kicked in so much it even cut power dramatically. Guess what it was? My mechanic forgot to tighten one of my rear shocks he swapped out. It was unsecured on top. Wild huh? It made a difference in ride and the system even picked it up. Tightened the shock and VSC was back to normal. What a system!
ShottsUZJ100 said:
Or that your system is "loosed" so that a different sized tires doesn't mess it up. I wish my G500's system was like that...i think that my system is too sensitive.
It's all in the calibration of the system i think. Every company has different calibration. In addition, each company gets ABS/VSC/ATRAC/BA computer chip from different companies (my unit is from Bosch). In addition, I think that my ESP also measure the lean/roll of the vehicle...i am not sure if Toyota's VSC does that. The roll sensor is what kills me when i put on 285/65/18 tires onto my truck (too much sidewall). Everytime that i take a corner (highway ramp), my ESP light would go off because it detects excessive lean at the wheels or something. No power cutoff though. Still it bothered me. One of the thing that may go wrong when you upsize is that Brake Assist may not work as advertised.
Before upsizing, i would check to make sure that VSC works and not intervene too much (as in my case). I would also make sure that Brake Assist still works...so do a few panic stops with the big tires. Lastly, i would make sure that ATRAC works efficiently. Bigger off-roading tires may create a lot of stress on your brakes (and heat)...since brakes are usually not overengineered much from the factory. (I had a BMW M3 that would overheat it's brakes within an instant on the track.) Make sure that ATRAC can efficiently slow down or stop a spinning tire to transfer torque to the other wheel. I doubt that my ESP on the G500 could do it efficiently with 35" tires...MB ESP is not as efficient as Land Rover's or Toyota's. MB ESP is more for on-road safety.
This is where i think the newer 4runner Sport Ed/GX470 has an advantage over TLC100 and G500 because they got relatively huge disc brakes which helps with brake fade.
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Thai said:
Hmmm, really ya think? Does the GX and your G500 brakes work at 100% power when the motor is off?
