Yup. You hit the nail on the head. I leaped before I looked with regards to the rear calipers, but it's ok; my MC and front calipers had an adsurd amount of miles on them, they needed to go anyway.
Just a quick question about rear disc conversion
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Yup. You hit the nail on the head. I leaped before I looked with regards to the rear calipers, but it's ok; my MC and front calipers had an adsurd amount of miles on them, they needed to go anyway.
Mark,
I have SSBC front brake calipers and rear chevy S-10 calipers. I am doing a SOA conversion and the 62 parts truck had these caliper sets on the truck so naturally I wanted to use the cooler brakes. Where can I read up on the LSPV and understand how it applies to this disc brake setup? How do I know if my stock MC will work appropriately? I am new to working on vehicles and have only had my truck about a year and a half. I’ve come a long way but braking systems are not something I want to play around with. From the statements above you seem to have experience with these setups. Any help or input to aid me in planning this system before completion of my SOA would help me expedite the down time of my rig. TIA.
I have SSBC front brake calipers and rear chevy S-10 calipers. I am doing a SOA conversion and the 62 parts truck had these caliper sets on the truck so naturally I wanted to use the cooler brakes. Where can I read up on the LSPV and understand how it applies to this disc brake setup? How do I know if my stock MC will work appropriately? I am new to working on vehicles and have only had my truck about a year and a half. I’ve come a long way but braking systems are not something I want to play around with. From the statements above you seem to have experience with these setups. Any help or input to aid me in planning this system before completion of my SOA would help me expedite the down time of my rig. TIA.
Then there are those that don't want to deal with the springs and adjustment and crap that go with drum brakes.
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- #24
If brackets are out there I still can't find them without buying a kit. I don't need a kit. Just brackets.
Where did everyone get theirs?
Ruff stuff has none @ the moment but should in a month or so.
Where did everyone get theirs?
Ruff stuff has none @ the moment but should in a month or so.
If you don't mind a weld-on bracket then have a look at a-a mfg. I suppose that you could turn them into a bolt-on bracket, but it would be a fair amount of work.
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- #26
Looking into fabing up my own @ my buddies machine shop....if I ever get my tranny so I can finish that swap.
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- #27
I'll check them out & see whats what..thanks for the input. my buddy mentioned in previous post made his for his rig & some for a 40....he offered up his shop & knowledge
My Son in law just purchased some brackets for one of the '60s recently, let me check and see where he got them. I have some on the shelf that Joe at JT Outfitters sent me a while back to try out.... they are drilled to bolt onto a '40 axle or a '60 series axle, and have spaced for both applications. I am not sure that he has these for sale, but shouild be easy to check. If not, a set of '40 brackets can be drilled to fit and dspacers can be easily made.
I buy my residual valves from Summit, line locks too.
Mark...
The Monte Carlo calipers that are used in all the kits and the vast majority of the home grown conversions are already too powerful for the tail end. From a design view, the whole conversion is a bit of a kludge... but it works nicely when all is done. I would never use a larger caliper than the Monto carlo units. Smaller would be better if you wind up building your own brackets anyway.
As to the arguement that if your brakes fail, then you have no emergency brake..... I see this brought up a lot... but let's take a closer look.
1) how many here have properly functioning OEM parking brakes? My money says that well over half do not... so a line lock that *might* fail doe to highly unusual occurances is still an improvement over non functioning OEM parking brakes.
2) when the OEM parking brake IS working..... how many hear really want to depend on it as an EMERGENCY brake? To be blunt..... what a joke... it will barely hold a rig stationary, much less slow it from speed.
3) your front and rear braking systems share only the reservoir. in the event of a rear brake failure, the partially function front brakes are still far superior to the OEM parking brake in any case... Sure if you are foolish enough to try and continue down the road with a ruptured line, you will run the reservoir dray and loose the other system too. But if you are that foolish....
4) Look at what it takes to disable your rear hydraulic braking system... How often have you seen that happen? Look at what it takes to disable your OEM parking brake... and how often that happens.
Now tell me..... Are you really worried about a line lock being less capable or less safe than the OEM parking brake?
I am not
Hold in the driveway?
I use mine for holding my rig in place with a PTO dragging other rigs out of mud holes and 40x18 inch boggers grabbing traction and trying to overpower the brakes. on tundra or on pavement.... the tires slide over the ground before the tires turn. Try that with an OEM parking brake I also keep the tranny brake functional on my 40's... No reason not to. If You can figure out a clean way to route the cable, then the Eldorado calipers are nice with the mechanical parking brake for use under a '6x series. But I would still use line locks if I really wanted to hold the rig in place.
Mark...
SSBC? perhaps I am being denser than usual, but I do not recognize those... and I try to avoid dealing with S10s
so I have no experience with the calipers that are on the rear of those.I would expect that your M/C will work fine. I doubt that the S10 used a caliper that is larger than the Monte Carlo style. What is the size of the pistons in the SSBC caliper?
Let me take a look at something I have been pondering a bit re: the LSPV and I will comment here tomorrow.
Mark...
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- #31
My line lock park brake sticks like glue also. I love it for holding power.
Mike I must agree with your comments earlier on the factory E-brake
Mike I must agree with your comments earlier on the factory E-brake
JT Outfitters has them on their Fleabay store.
$70.00 USD if I remember correctly.
They are a bolt on design which works for both the 40 Series bearing end as well as the mini truck/ 60 Series ends.
Brackets are the missing piece in my disc conversion.
Time for some SolidWorks time
SSBC? perhaps I am being denser than usual, but I do not recognize those... and I try to avoid dealing with S10s
I would expect that your M/C will work fine. I doubt that the S10 used a caliper that is larger than the Monte Carlo style. What is the size of the pistons in the SSBC caliper?
Let me take a look at something I have been pondering a bit re: the LSPV and I will comment here tomorrow.
Mark...
Mark,
The SSBC brakes are pretty large.
SSBC :: Truck Stop Program
The S-10 rears are pretty small. Hopefully I can use the stock braking system.
The mechanical brake might have started out in the early days of hydraulic brakes as an "Emergency Brake", but I agree with Mark W, today they are a Parking Brake at best.
My disillusion with "line locks" stems from the way that they are designed. To hold pressure in the system there must be electrical power applied. Loose that power and the braking function disappears.
Contrast that with the more expensive (though I don't really understand why) Mico-lock design. These use electrical power to engage the pressure holding mechanism, but the pressure itself is what maintains the seal. Stepping on the pedal without the electrics being turned on releases the brakes. This is a much better concept and design and is what tow trucks are frequently equipped with. First thing I look for when spotting a tow truck in a wrecking yard is to see if the Mico is still there. A friend has found 3 of them this way.
My disillusion with hydraulic parking brakes on the whole is that it is the nature of hydraulics under pressure to leak down over time. With no active method of maintaining that pressure (metered accumulator, pump, etc.) line pressure will slowly fall. How fast it falls depends on the unique system. I've read of guys saying theirs will hold overnight or longer, but you can not expect that to be the case every time. I highly discourage anyone from expecting them to hold position if they plan to climb under the truck. I have seen line locks unexpectedly fail to work, I just do not trust them. If you need to climb under the truck while needing the brakes to hold position then use the line lock to hold position until someone else can sit in the driver's seat with their foot on the pedal.
My friend Lars wrote this tech sheet: Rear Disc Brakes - Cadillac/GM calipers | ClassicBroncos.com Tech Articles
He has since given up on the GM Hydro-Mechanical calipers and gone to the Explorer caliper and p-brake system. The basic problem with the GM p-brake calipers is that there are no parts for the adjuster mechanism, and most of them are too rusty to work correctly. After all of that Lars managed to coax the Cad calipers to function properly for not much more than a year. The Explorer system has been trouble and more importantly user interaction free for over 2 years and counting.
If you insist on using a hydro-mechanical caliper I'll suggest looking into the Varga. I think these are used on some late model Fords, but I've no idea what. I know of a very, very custom Early Bronco somewhere in BC that has been using them for about a year and the reports back on them is good. I've not seen the calipers, I've no idea what is involved in making them work.
[copy-posted: https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/256361-comments-brakes-2.html#post4505559]
My disillusion with "line locks" stems from the way that they are designed. To hold pressure in the system there must be electrical power applied. Loose that power and the braking function disappears.
Contrast that with the more expensive (though I don't really understand why) Mico-lock design. These use electrical power to engage the pressure holding mechanism, but the pressure itself is what maintains the seal. Stepping on the pedal without the electrics being turned on releases the brakes. This is a much better concept and design and is what tow trucks are frequently equipped with. First thing I look for when spotting a tow truck in a wrecking yard is to see if the Mico is still there. A friend has found 3 of them this way.
My disillusion with hydraulic parking brakes on the whole is that it is the nature of hydraulics under pressure to leak down over time. With no active method of maintaining that pressure (metered accumulator, pump, etc.) line pressure will slowly fall. How fast it falls depends on the unique system. I've read of guys saying theirs will hold overnight or longer, but you can not expect that to be the case every time. I highly discourage anyone from expecting them to hold position if they plan to climb under the truck. I have seen line locks unexpectedly fail to work, I just do not trust them. If you need to climb under the truck while needing the brakes to hold position then use the line lock to hold position until someone else can sit in the driver's seat with their foot on the pedal.
My friend Lars wrote this tech sheet: Rear Disc Brakes - Cadillac/GM calipers | ClassicBroncos.com Tech Articles
He has since given up on the GM Hydro-Mechanical calipers and gone to the Explorer caliper and p-brake system. The basic problem with the GM p-brake calipers is that there are no parts for the adjuster mechanism, and most of them are too rusty to work correctly. After all of that Lars managed to coax the Cad calipers to function properly for not much more than a year. The Explorer system has been trouble and more importantly user interaction free for over 2 years and counting.
If you insist on using a hydro-mechanical caliper I'll suggest looking into the Varga. I think these are used on some late model Fords, but I've no idea what. I know of a very, very custom Early Bronco somewhere in BC that has been using them for about a year and the reports back on them is good. I've not seen the calipers, I've no idea what is involved in making them work.
[copy-posted: https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/256361-comments-brakes-2.html#post4505559]
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Randy, any idea of what the piston sizes in those calipers are?
My factory E-brake (R.I.P.) would lock up my rear wheels and would hold firm on any grade. The rear service brakes sucked. I could never get them to work correctly. And for the record, I have been in two vehicles in my life that suffered a primary brake system failure; one was the 1970 Impala that my mother drove, the other (don't use this against me) was a 1971 Scout. The Impala was brought to a stop with the E-Brake. The Scout I just had to swerve around the vehicles in front of me like a drunkard untill I could coast to a stop. So for me, a working E-brake, although I may never need it, is something that allows me to sleep at night.
The SSBC's are big. i don't know the measurement. I'll check and get back to you and Mark.
An excellent read on brake system valves. The Brake Man.com - ValveTechI
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- #39
As far as the line lock park brake goes..I have a mechanical system that works like a ball valve. Step on the brakes, lift the lever & brakes stay on in rear...Push the lever back down & they release. I have never used it for legnthy holding time 1/2 hour to an hour maybe.
I noticed Redcorn stated 60 series/mini truck bracket...are they the same? I have a set of mini truck rear disc brake brackets hanging in my shop!!??
I noticed Redcorn stated 60 series/mini truck bracket...are they the same? I have a set of mini truck rear disc brake brackets hanging in my shop!!??
I don't see bleed down as a problem. I chock my wheels now any time I park on an incline anyway.