Is there a Detroit locker that fits the LC200?

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Is there a Detroit locker that fits the LC200?

Like the normal one or the eaton true-trac?

I'm not even sure what rear end and spline axel in in these 200's?

I was looking for a locker and I see the arb air locker, a Harrop electric locker, and a TJM locker .. are they the only 3 choices?
 
I think I saw one at one point. It’s a 32 spline reverse. The switchable options you mention are far more streetable than a Detroit is going to be.
 
Are the 3 above the only choices.. or are there some others?

I've had a Detroit in the rear on my grand Cherokee for the last 150k+ miles .. and in the back and front of my diesel ram for last 250k+ miles. They are zero maintenance and extremely reliable.

It seems from the 3 choices the arb locks better if positioning a vehicle. i.e. backing up a little then going forward the electrics unlock and then need to turn to re-lock. They have some ball bearings running on a ring-spring pressing pins.

Is the arb the best pick for reliability? and does anyone have the part/tool number for setting the carrier load?
 
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They both have minor drawbacks. Elockers have a half rotation required. Air lockers have seal failures. The tjm tried to fix the seal failure but its discontinued.

Most are getting Elockers now. I already invested in a compressor so I'm Likely to get an air locker as its cheaper.
 
I’ve had 5 air lockers since 2002 and never had a seal failure. Just an air line pin hole that was fixed prior to a trip in about 20 minutes. 4 of those had over 100,000 miles and 2 with 40,000 miles now.

I’ve had an e-locker that the wiring was also damaged (like on the air locker). Quick fix that took 20 minutes.

When playing in the rocks, where backing up while flexing, the air lockers are better as they maintain lock up.

If your lockers and more needed for general muddy or loose rock trail, where small forward and reverse maneuvers and not often seen, e-lockers and a great option.

I don’t think you can go wrong with any selectable locker in a 200. It’s the automatic ones that won’t play very nice with the full time 4wheel drive that the 200 has.
 
Wouldn’t the automatic lockers and ATRAC kind of work against each other?
 
Wouldn’t the automatic lockers and ATRAC kind of work against each other?

I’m curious too.
Personally, I was completely in the dark about Detroit lockers & was scratching my head about it until I ended up on the phone with @Taco2Cruiser about something else the other day and asked.

Still, maybe a general description of the particulars of the Detroit locker in a 200 would be helpful to fellow head-scratchers like me.

Personally I can’t understand wanting lockers engaging on their own...so I’m curious what some feel it would add that make them want one over a “regular” locker like the ARB.

No axe to grind. Just curious what Detroit locker fans see in them here.
 
My Jeep Grand Cherokee comes from the factory with QTii (Quadra Track 2) with is very similar to the Toyota ATRAC if not near the exact same.
Then add the Eaton/Detroit True-trac diff.
It's like the ATRAC on steroids.

No buttons to push to lock up, no stopping or slowing to lock up when needed. A very simple system that has been tested severely for decades. Traction is there when needed.

Fairly easy install as it just swapping out the diff. set the load and back lash. No special maintenance.

 
This video was pretty interesting about Athens internals. ARB, Eaton, Ox, Yukon, Detroit and even solid spools.

 
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Wouldn’t the automatic lockers and ATRAC kind of work against each other?
Not really - ATRAC is a version of an electric locker. It applies the brake on the wheel that is spinning, to allow the torque to go to the tire with traction. If you are locked, the one wheel spin doesn't get a chance to happen in the first place, so ATRAC never applies. In fact, a locker is just one more tool in the box for trail running.
 
@Fisher23 ATRAC, Quadra Trac II (which uses clutches which can overheat when adjusting power output under heavy load for about 30 minutes, unlike a Torsen center diff, I’ve seen it personally quite often in the sand), and CRAWL are NOT the problem I’m talking about with automatic lockers.

Those electronic (uses brakes force) traction aid only engage when on and detect slippage. If you never slip, it won’t engage, even when they are turned on. Easy.

The issue is the mechanical center open differential on a hard surface like a paved road (kinda going back to the earlier comment about QTII uses clutches as it’s center diff, but the 200 uses a much more robust limited slip mechanical differential). Now if you put an automatic rear locker like a Detroit in there, make turns while applying a little accelerator pedal, it’s going to lock up and send power 50/50, left and right. That is now going to bind and power is going to try and go to the patch of least resistance... the front. But the 200 isn’t an all wheel drive that can send up 90% of its power to the front, it’s full time 4 wheel drive and is setup to only send up to 60% of its power to the front.

Because the front is still open, you can have up to 60% of that power now pushed to one front wheel and it’s going to happen while turning on roads. Pavement is high traction and not going to let go. Then you will start to get chirping. When the only place left for a tire to go after it’s buuld up so much energy from the drivetrain, but is being Hald to the ground beucase of traction, the tire/pavement contact will finally break and the tire will pop up off the ground, rotate to free the load, then hit again. It will do that over and over until you stop turning or applying the accelerator pedal.

Now, none of this matter in you other vehicles you mentioned, as those still can either not send power at all to the front, or so much of it the rear locker doesn’t matter, it’s when it only send half the power that’s the problem.

That’s why an automatic is bad in a full time 4wheel drive. It’s not beucase of off roading, it’s from driving on paved roads.

Right now, for guys that have 200s, when you are in a parking lot, and you hear that tire squeal when making turns unlike a front, rear, or part-time 4wd, or all wheel drive? That’s binding within the drivetrain that just on the edge of reason that Toyota accepts (beucase the LC is so off-road oriented, it can’t even go into 2wd, haha) anyway. Now imagine if you messed with that and gave, even more power to a front tire, the one that require the least power when turning. See the issues that can be cause from a rear automatic locker in this particular vehicle?

Hopefully that makes sense, I’d be happy to explain it in a different way. Ugh... I hate typing this stuff out, which I could just explain it in person.
 
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@Fisher23 ATRAC, Quadra Trac II (which uses clutches which can overheat when adjusting power output under heavy load for about 30 minutes, unlike a Torsen center diff, I’ve seen it personally quite often in the sand), and CRAWL are NOT the problem I’m talking about with automatic lockers.

Those electronic (uses brakes force) traction aid only engage when on and detect slippage. If you never slip, it won’t engage, even when they are turned on. Easy.

The issue is the mechanical center open differential on a hard surface like a paved road (kinda going back to the earlier comment about QTII uses clutches as it’s center diff, but the 200 uses a much more robust limited slip mechanical differential). Now if you put an automatic rear locker like a Detroit in there, make turns while applying a little accelerator pedal, it’s going to lock up and send power 50/50, left and right. That is now going to bind and power is going to try and go to the patch of least resistance... the front. But the 200 isn’t an all wheel drive that can send up 90% of its power to the front, it’s full time 4 wheel drive and is setup to only send up to 60% of its power to the front.

Because the front is still open, you can have up to 60% of that power now pushed to one front wheel and it’s going to happen while turning on roads. Pavement is high traction and not going to let go. Then you will start to get chirping. When the only place left for a tire to go after it’s buuld up so much energy from the drivetrain, but is being Hald to the ground beucase of traction, the tire/pavement contact will finally break and the tire will pop up off the ground, rotate to free the load, then hit again. It will do that over and over until you stop turning or applying the accelerator pedal.

Now, none of this matter in you other vehicles you mentioned, as those still can either not send power at all to the front, or so much of it the rear locker doesn’t matter, it’s when it only send half the power that’s the problem.

That’s why an automatic is bad in a full time 4wheel drive. It’s not beucase of off roading, it’s from driving on paved roads.

Right now, for guys that have 200s, when you are in a parking lot, and you hear that tire squeal when making turns unlike a front, rear, or part-time 4wd, or all wheel drive? That’s binding within the drivetrain that just on the edge of reason that Toyota accepts (beucase the LC is so off-road oriented, it can’t even go into 2wd, haha) anyway. Now imagine if you messed with that and gave, even more power to a front tire, the one that require the least power when turning. See the issues that can be cause from a rear automatic locker in this particular vehicle?

Hopefully that makes sense, I’d be happy to explain it in a different way. Ugh... I hate typing this stuff out, which I could just explain it in person.
I had a ‘13 grand Cherokee trailhawk with the Quadra drive II for almost 1 year prior to my ‘13 LX. It was my attempt to “buy American”. In sand on “sand mode”. It would overheat the diff in <10 min and go into “limp mode”. I also had it do the same in loose unplowed snow covered roads a few times. The only way I could drive it on the beach (to get to where we surf cast for halibut) was in 4wd low going very slow. It was extremely clear it was not really ment to go off road. I try and keep vehicles at least 10 years (drove a g500 for 11 years prior to that) but Between center diff failures and air suspension failures I punted and took the hit after 1 year and got my LX. The Jeep drove well on road but Absolutely no comparison off road.
 
Not really - ATRAC is a version of an electric locker. It applies the brake on the wheel that is spinning, to allow the torque to go to the tire with traction. If you are locked, the one wheel spin doesn't get a chance to happen in the first place, so ATRAC never applies. In fact, a locker is just one more tool in the box for trail running.

Correct me if I am wrong, I dont feel ATRAC acts as a locker, ATRAC does not 'lock' both wheels on an axle to spin together. ATRAC brakes the wheel that is slipping thus sending power to the wheel with traction.

I feel like with an Electronic locker you would then lose ATRAC in the rear? Seems like a downgrade as here are instances where ATRAC may be better than a locked rear. I think its fair to say, you would LOSE one tool from the tool box by having an auto locker. Selectable (Air or Electronic) Locker for the WIN. Also all those great reasons Taco mentioned

For what its worth, I am coming from a 98 100 with no ATRAC :moon:
 
You are correct on the ATRAC not behaving like a locker. A bad choice of words on my part. But if you have a selectable locker, you haven't lost any tools. If you want to use ATRAC, then turn the locker off. Want to lock up, turn it on.
 
I feel like with an Electronic locker you would then lose ATRAC in the rear? Seems like a downgrade as here are instances where ATRAC may be better than a locked rear. I think its fair to say, you would LOSE one tool from the tool box by having an auto locker. Selectable (Air or Electronic) Locker for the WIN. Also all those great reasons Taco mentioned

As long as the electronic locker is unlocked, ATRAC will operate as usual -- if ATRAC detects a wheel slipping (difference in rotational speeds) it will brake that wheel. If you lock the rear diff using an electric locker, then both rear wheels turn at the same speed, so ATRAC won't engage.
 
@Taco2Cruiser , that pavement explanation on full time 4WD makes sense. Your least favorite way of explaining (typing) worked well. :)

Beyond that though... I have a more basic Q & maybe a fan of the Detroit can help me understand their thinking.

Not really a technical question.

**Thinking crawling here...not bombing through mud.

-The part I still don’t see is why anyone would want to hand over locker control to automatic anything. Just seems like giving up a major part of my brain—the only thing that can actually SEE the intended line, what’s coming, and that wants to know exactly what the wheels will do through the obstacle...rather than hoping the automatic does what I want, when I want it...and for how long. For me (beyond simple traction)—that control is a major part of the motivation. Why hand that control off to something completely unaware of the nuanced oddities of a particular obstacle?

Am I missing something here?
Not trying to challenge the Detroit fans.
Just trying to understand what’s motivating about that to you.
 
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I’m curious too.
Personally, I was completely in the dark about Detroit lockers & was scratching my head about it until I ended up on the phone with @Taco2Cruiser about something else the other day and asked.

Still, maybe a general description of the particulars of the Detroit locker in a 200 would be helpful to fellow head-scratchers like me.

Personally I can’t understand wanting lockers engaging on their own...so I’m curious what some feel it would add that make them want one over a “regular” locker like the ARB.

No axe to grind. Just curious what Detroit locker fans see in them here.
I’m told with a locked ARB in the rear, a 200’s MTS will “sense” that both rear wheels are turning and “focus” on the traction control of the front tires. I’m very tempted to try this. :-)
 
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