I love the haters... :)

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Mace said:
REmember folks, nobody is wrong.. This is all about opinions..

And I specifically asked why people don't like the new FJ cruiser so much..


This is not a fight..

No name calling ;)
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Mace is right. This has been a pretty good discussion so far. Im just way disapointed in Toyota. How they cant find a market in North America for 70 series trucks amazes me. Frankly they're to smart for that. There has to be something else going on.

Sad.

Back to my BJ74 importation issues.


TB
 
HZJ60 Guy said:
Mace is right. This has been a pretty good discussion so far. Im just way disapointed in Toyota. How they cant find a market in North America for 70 series trucks amazes me. Frankly they're to smart for that. There has to be something else going on.

Sad.

Back to my BJ74 importation issues.


TB
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A lot of the 70 seris importation issues are based on the fact that they don't comply with current safety standards. The amount of money it would cost to retool for the USA market would be pretty big. Basically the same reason Rover stopped importing the D90 in 97. It just got too costly to bring then up to standards.

Can you imagine designing new body paneld for the 70 series that have all of the proper crumple zones/ air bags etc..

Toyota would have to sell a BUNCH of them to make up the loss in retooling. And the considerable down time (when no 70 series would be produced) while they are retooling..

Is it unfortunate?? yep. I would love a Troopy 70 series. But I can see the issues..
 
Marketing always wins, that's all. How many LC owners are on this board out of the total # driving one? A very small percentage, almost all of the current LC market is country clubbers and soccer moms. The LC and the Lexus are status symbols in a lot of US neighborhoods, Toyota won't risk devaluing a brand built on quality and $$$ by associating a new entry-level vehicle with the LC name.

I'm looking forward to the release, a lot of these questions and arguments will be answered the first time one hits the pavement, let alone the rocks.
 
Mace said:
A lot of the 70 series importation issues are based on the fact that they don't comply with current safety standards. The amount of money it would cost to retool for the USA market would be pretty big. Basically the same reason Rover stopped importing the D90 in 97. It just got too costly to bring then up to standards.

Can you imagine designing new body paneld for the 70 series that have all of the proper crumple zones/ air bags etc..

Toyota would have to sell a BUNCH of them to make up the loss in retooling. And the considerable down time (when no 70 series would be produced) while they are retooling..

Is it unfortunate?? yep. I would love a Troopy 70 series. But I can see the issues..
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I think the shipping is an issue too. For most of the last decade, Toyota was selling every 80 and 100 series that they could bring over here. Now shipping from Japan costs the same for a cheaper bare bones 70 series, and an optioned out luxo cruiser. The 80/100 series has a much larger profit margin per vehicle. Toyota has worked really hard to turn the Land Cruiser name in the US into one associated with luxury and status/eliteness. Selling a bare bones pickup or swb with the same name does not really tie into the branding they have tried to establish. Plus, honestly, who the hell in the US would buy any 70 series. Trust me, we are a minority. Toyota has quite the market research department. If there was any sort of demand or market for the 70 series, it would be here. But sadly, there isn't. Such is life. My 2 cents.
 
rustycruiser said:
Plus, honestly, who the hell in the US would buy any 70 series. Trust me, we are a minority. Toyota has quite the market research department. If there was any sort of demand or market for the 70 series, it would be here. But sadly, there isn't. Such is life. My 2 cents.
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exactlee...there are 100 addicts with the disposable/available income to purchase a 70 series in the US. There are 900 others who say they will, but practicality and logic will override when it comes time.

I personally like it...since I'm cruiser shopping right now, I'm only bummed it's not available now (and yes, I checked with my Toyota contacts ;) ) I will take a hard look when it comes out in 2006 tho, and perhaps talk my budget into it.
 
I think it's pretty good. If they were calling it a FJ40 Cruiser, that would be kinda wrong, since that would drag in the FJ40 name...but they aren't doing that. If they were calling it a FJ Land Cruiser, that would be wrong too IMO, since they are draggin the name in again. But they aren't doing either of those, they are calling it the FJ Cruiser, a mixture of the utility aspects of the old 40, some luxury and benefits of the newer Land Cruiser and making a vehicle out of that.

I think we should all be happy Toyota hasn't attempted to sell a 70-series Cruiser here, if they did, they would lose major amount of money and probably have to radically change their company or go bankrupt, in which case none of us could buy any new Toyotas, I'd rather have what we have now than that.

I think ya'll need to stop bitching, Toyota could have just made another Highlander, or Rav4... :flipoff2:
 
mabrodis said:
I think ya'll need to stop bitching, Toyota could have just made another Highlander, or Rav4... :flipoff2:
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Ummmmm, this IS a bitch thread ;)



If you can't say something negative then just don't say anything at all



:flipoff2:
 
Okay, I don't work for Toyota or any auto manufacturer. But I have consulted for a couple in the past and work in market pricing as a management consultant now.

Let me tell you that I highly doubt there have been extensive studies on market needs, especially the ones to which we are referring. When you get as big as the Big3 or Toyota you simply dictate a market. If you put /anything/ out there for the most part it sells; as time progresses you look at what your loss leaders are and remove them. Iterate this process, introduce new things, and the theory is you `organically' grow your product base from your original (thought-out) product set.

This can backfire. It happened to the American car companies in the 70s/80s. When you start telling your customers what they want a smaller, better engineered company who has actually done marketing studies can nip you (the way the Japanese took on the American autos).

I fear Toyota is in the same big boat now. This is the natural evolution of corporate America though, their job is to bring return to their investors...period.

I bet not one person here has been or has known or has heard of anyone that has been surveyed by Toyota of what they want in an auto.
 
Sorry guys, but Im callin BS! If the damn TJ will pass whatever safety inspection tests than you can bet your big fat white asses that the 73-74-75 series would too!

Rover stopped selling the D90 because they refused to install AIR BAGS! Period. I have a friends who are D90 nutz and theyve been over to Rover in England. It was a ideological point. The US wasnt going to make them change there vehicle.

They could simply produce the damn thing here in the US and not worry about all of that. If they can build that worthless Rav 4 (and IT can pass the tests) they could build a 73-74-75 that would too.


TB %$#@^
 
You're right. Read the CFRs, there is /very little/ in terms of safety regulation, almost nothing on crumple zones, etc. Especially if you have a low-volume line. Anything producing under 10k vehicles are subject to many exemptions.

Toyota with their resources could easily retrofit airbags and whatnot. hzj60, read my upper thread, it's just that they don't CARE to, not that they WON'T nor CAN'T, there would still be profit, albeit not as much as a 100 series, but gotta be more than the Prius...
 
3fj40 said:
You're right. Read the CFRs, there is /very little/ in terms of safety regulation, almost nothing on crumple zones, etc. Especially if you have a low-volume line. Anything producing under 10k vehicles are subject to many exemptions.

Toyota with their resources could easily retrofit airbags and whatnot. hzj60, read my upper thread, it's just that they don't CARE to, not that they WON'T nor CAN'T, there would still be profit, albeit not as much as a 100 series, but gotta be more than the Prius...
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VERY good points all. I mean come on guys. We all know how well the 70 series are made. If a TJ can pass a crash test you dont think a FJ/HZJ/BJ-74 can pass better???

Ya sure buddy.

I agree. The bastards are still pissed off at us for dropping two nukes on them! That's why we only get the s***!


TB :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
 
So you think it would be a good idea to retool their plant (adding airbags as an example) and potentialy add a bunch of emissions stuff to the motors just to sell under 10K trucks a year???

It is all about profit..
 
HZJ60 Guy said:
VERY good points all. I mean come on guys. We all know how well the 70 series are made. If a TJ can pass a crash test you dont think a FJ/HZJ/BJ-74 can pass better???
QUOTE]


Okay,
Fair question..

How many people can attest to how well a 70 series is made???

:D
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I'm not saying its a bad idea!

1) There would be profit. Not BIG profit, but margin nonetheless.
2) They would create what's called `affinities' where I would be more likely to come back and buy a 100 sereis high-margin-mobile for the wifey if I could have /exactly/ what I wanted that was less profitable. Retailers do this every day, promote and sell loss leaders because it `drags' sales of other higher profitable products. Why is peanut butter on sale but jelly's so expensive?
3) You don't have to retool a plant to put airbags in, nor to add emissions equipment. Europe has some very strict emissions that would pass US laws with flying colors, it's already been done on most of those engines.
 
Face it, Toyota must sell a vehicle that can be driven on a daily basis. No one can sell a vehicle that is purely a trail princess and make a profit. Why do most of the people wheeling built 40s trailer their rigs to the trail rather than drive them there? How many people that do own and DD a 40 don’t have another vehicle at their disposal? An uncomfortable riding vehicle seriously limits your market of potential buyers.

We are a limited market that want a serious off- road machine. Take that small number and subtract the majority of “wanters” who would not actually throw down the cash once such a vehicle was produced and you’d have a very small number. If Mr. T thought it could make a profit with such a vehicle in the US market they would do it.

My point is that to sell a new vehicle in the US market is that it must handle the DD task fairly well because the buyer may not have a second vehicle to pick up the task of a long hauler.
 
70 series out-of-the-box is certainly road and highway worthy. Australia is quite lucky to have that and they in general don't build these things to be solely-trail rigs.

Remember, I could probably make a profit performing pool maintenance though too, but I have chosen to spend my time doing consulting work. The difference here is that Toyota could build prospective customer bases out of people like us for /other/ purchases. You could make the argument about how much of a customer base, and the statistics for future purchases around it. Hell, I might even find someone needing enterprise software while doing pool maintenance.

Point is, they simply don't want to!
 
I can keep going back to the TJ as a stance to all these points.

The 70 series fits in the same market. Even if it was more expensive. The Rubicon and Unlimited are more expensive and they are selling the hell out of them.



TB
 
Mace said:
I love the haters :D
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Quote Chef: "I hate hate haters."

Let me preface this by saying this by saying:
"I now speak as Chef, regular grade idiot, not Alan, TLCA Pres grade idiot."

Nomex On:

Bashing the new FJ in comparison to the old one makes as much sense as bashing the new Tacoma for not being a 40 year old Hilux.


Toyota could have built a Wrangler if they wanted to. They didn't. Different target demographic, different end result.
 
This thread is not supposed to make sense.

It is here so that the haters can vent somewhere without cloging the other threads ;)
 
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