Help me with suspension lift, wheels, tires for Mall Crawling (serious post)

[ArnieC]

Ok guys, I am going to level with you. I am a mall crawler. I proudly rock my Mall Terrain tires and Patagucci jacket. That being said, I don't plan on running the Baja 1000, going rock crawing, or even the trails at Moab. The most off-roady my Land Cruiser will see is gravel roads, 2 tracks, maybe some dirt roads and very light trail work in Michigan's upper peninsula. No bumpers, no snorkels, no sliders (ok, maybe sliders)

The little lady has given me the blessing to get some wheels and tires for my 2015 Land Cruiser and a small lift. So help me out here.

Stock offset is +60, Rock Warriors are +50, seems most aftermarket Tundra wheels are in that +20 or so range. Can I fit a +20 offset and a 32 or 33" tire with no lift? Or what is the least amount of lift I need?

What is the honey hole of lift amount, tire size OD and width, and rim offset that will give me all the look, decent road manners, and still not rub in daily driving. I was looking at something along the lines of 18x8 or 8.5, 32-33" tall tire (285/65 R18 BFG All Terrain would be the preference) and a slight lift/levelling lift, maybe just 10mm spacers in back and a 1" lift in front +25 or so offset.

Thanks for the understanding and the help.

 

[cboyd]

i'm right there with you on my recently acquired 2015. I don't mall crawl, but I do tote horses around and for that I'd like to hear the same answers... I just sold my 100 that had a light lift (diff drop, stouter springs), A/T tires (for snow, 2-track and gravel travel), and a nice stance. I sold the 100 for more horsepower, ironically, for more power to tow horses

so +subscribed!

 

[kreiten]

Ok guys, I am going to level with you. I am a mall crawler. I proudly rock my Mall Terrain tires and Patagucci jacket. That being said, I don't plan on running the Baja 1000, going rock crawing, or even the trails at Moab. The most off-roady my Land Cruiser will see is gravel roads, 2 tracks, maybe some dirt roads and very light trail work in Michigan's upper peninsula. No bumpers, no snorkels, no sliders (ok, maybe sliders)

The little lady has given me the blessing to get some wheels and tires for my 2015 Land Cruiser and a small lift. So help me out here.

Stock offset is +60, Rock Warriors are +50, seems most aftermarket Tundra wheels are in that +20 or so range. Can I fit a +20 offset and a 32 or 33" tire with no lift? Or what is the least amount of lift I need?

What is the honey hole of lift amount, tire size OD and width, and rim offset that will give me all the look, decent road manners, and still not rub in daily driving. I was looking at something along the lines of 18x8 or 8.5, 32-33" tall tire (285/65 R18 BFG All Terrain would be the preference) and a slight lift/levelling lift, maybe just 10mm spacers in back and a 1" lift in front +25 or so offset.

Thanks for the understanding and the help.

Should be fine running 18x8.5 or 9's with 25mm offset with a BFG 285/65 R18 with a 1 inch lift for mall crawling so long as you are willing to cut or heat/reshape some of your inner fender lining and maybe lose the mudflaps. I run 18x9 inch 20mm offset with BFG 285/70 R18's with a 3 inch lift... hope that helps.

 

[Blandito80]

My Stage 1 of my advancing LC URG 200 'build' might be of interest to you. OME BP-51 suspension with Upper Control Arms gives you @1.5-2inch lift with a bit more clearance for your 2 tracks, greatly enhances rough gravel road handling + maintains good handling manners on highway with proper adjusted alignment for lift.

Slee Sliders for steps and general protection, vertical/horizontal obstacles as well as Mall parking lot Door Bangs.

Nitto Ridge Grapplers in stock size and on stock rims so your speedometer/computer stay true... good all around tire for the Mall as well as gravel roads, way tougher than stock tire and better on ice than the BFG.

Greatly enhanced capability overall without all the snorkels, etc and still a clean simple look

 

[EastPlnsDrifter]

i'm right there with you on my recently acquired 2015. I don't mall crawl, but I do tote horses around and for that I'd like to hear the same answers... I just sold my 100 that had a light lift (diff drop, stouter springs), A/T tires (for snow, 2-track and gravel travel), and a nice stance. I sold the 100 for more horsepower, ironically, for more power to tow horses

so +subscribed!

We bought our '15 200 with a mind to being able to tow our horses around. It did great purely stock for the trail rides and hunter paces we had in CT. What it didn't do great was tow our Tennessee Walker, fat little Shetland, and Gypsy Vanner from CT to CO. I wasn't there, but I don't think she took total payload into consideration. The Gypsy was out front and the Shetland in back with so I doubt there was just 650lbs of tongue weight. The rear springs never seemed the same, but maybe they always had that tendency to sag that much when under load. On the plus side it is what finally got her to let me replace the springs with ARB 2721s and the shocks with BP51s which have been a massive improvement. Not necessary for mall crawling though.

If you want to do more than your local rides you might want to upgrade springs if you're carrying more than two horses. A WD hitch is always a good investment, but depending on your trailer setup your horses may want to do some walking in their space (we use a Featherlite combination livestock/3 horse with a herringbone setup). That's where the suspension upgrades come into play. The BPs would have been overkill for anything we did in CT or the Berkshires in MA, and the stock Dunlops surprisingly did okay with that light snow year. Out here they've been a godsend with the roads I drive on. 285/70/17 Duratracs on RWs have been good to me out here as far as traction on snow and ice, but don't confuse them for true winter tires. My wife's Ridge Grapplers on her Tundra seem to be about as good and they're definitely sturdy tires.

You and the OP may want to check out this resource as well when making your decisions: 200 Series Tire and Wheel Database

 

[cboyd]

If you want to do more than your local rides you might want to upgrade springs if you're carrying more than two horses.

Not to Hijack - but agree completely - this why I ran Timbrens on the 100 and will do so on the 200. They also helped with other things like loading up the whole family and heading to the mall...

 

[grinchy]

You can grab some LX 20s (+51 offset) (freeish or $50/each) Some C rated ATs (like the Nexen Roadian, $120 each, available in 33" and 34"). This will still kill your mpg, but less than a LT rated tire would. I like the bud built slider. Solid.

 

[TeCKis300]

Stock offset is +60, Rock Warriors are +50, seems most aftermarket Tundra wheels are in that +20 or so range. Can I fit a +20 offset and a 32 or 33" tire with no lift? Or what is the least amount of lift I need?

You may want to know that offset is useful for fitment. But it also plays into suspension geometry called scrub radius. Get it too wrong, and there will be impacts to steering, steering feel, turn radius, steering kickback, and handling. It might be more noticeable to some as extra tire squealing when making tight turns in parking structures.

Most consider offset only aesthetically, but proper offset is correlated to overall tire diameter. A 32-33" tire, ideally should have a 50mm offset. It's why Rock Warriors, designed for a 32.5" 285/70/17 tire, is 50mm.

+20 IMO is really too far outside ideal. Both sticking outside the fender, and creating steering and handling issues relating to scrub radius.

 

[kreiten]

You may want to know that offset is useful for fitment. But it also plays into suspension geometry called scrub radius. Get it too wrong, and there will be impacts to steering, steering feel, turn radius, steering kickback, and handling. It might be more noticeable to some as extra tire squealing when making tight turns in parking structures.

Most consider offset only aesthetically, but proper offset is correlated to overall tire diameter. A 32-33" tire, ideally should have a 50mm offset. It's why Rock Warriors, designed for a 32.5" 285/65/18 tire, is 50mm.

+20 IMO is really too far outside ideal. Both sticking outside the fender, and creating steering and handling issues relating to scrub radius.

I get all of the engineering aspects of having a wheel with more offset, more pressure on the bearings, scrub radius etc.. In my opinion a 35mm offset would be perfect for the 200 series for proper tire fitment, keeps it out away from the UCA and KDSS bar(my 275/70 R18's rubbed the UCA with stock wheels) I have 3 LC's, one with stock Tundra Steelies, one with 35mm offset wheels and one with 20mm offset wheels, the one with 20mm offset wheels handles the best IMO. I noticed no adverse affects after having the wheels put on and have driven lots of stock 200's and always prefer the way mine drives with the wheels I have, just my 2 cents... I get scrub radius, wheel offset, etc... I'm just throwing down my experience with about 60k hard miles on the setup...

 

[Markuson]

Similar to @kreiten ’s actual field comparison & experience, my handling improved and my tires actually STOPPED squealing in street turns/curving freeway on-ramps when I radded .75” spacers to my Rock Warriors/35’s combo. So...do the math of 10mm wider stance via RW’s 50mm...plus another .75” outward...and it again confirms these trucks extremely well with a wider-than-stock stance.

With my combo...I am right around 30mm wider than stock at each wheel. When I used 1.25” spacers, that was an additional total widening (compared to stock) of 41.75mm push-out per wheel.

In my case with my .75”+RW50 offset...Zero detrimental effects on handling (actually improved)...no perceivable/noteworthy impact on radius (still exceptionally good for a truck this size)...and...-I’m on the same bearings with zero signs of issues after 70k miles (120k total on these beating) using on either 1.25” spacers or these .75”.

In other words...IMHOBOFE (In my honest opinion based on field experience...hehe), reports of offset-based performance-demise are greatly exaggerated with the 200. If you can satisfactorially clear the sweep, fender wells and sway bars...go for it.

Neither weight...nor spacers+50mm offset...nor 35’s have managed to spell disaster for bearings or anything else after 70k+ miles including “violent” Baja beatings, rock-banging articulation & street manners actually improved.

I have discovered that this LC platform is far more tolerant than traditional assumptions might suggest re offset.

As always, YMMV...but 70k past the stance change...my rough use on the wider combo hasn’t phased my LCs related front-end components.

 

[OrangeTJ]

You can run 33" tall tires on the stock 18s with no other mods. I have 275/75 18 BGF KO2s on my 15 and it works in all conditions. Rides great and can tackle terrain that it doesn't look like it should be able to - with ease. I have no lift yet, but it's easy to see that they'd look killer with 1.5-2" of lift.

 

[TeCKis300]

I get all of the engineering aspects of having a wheel with more offset, more pressure on the bearings, scrub radius etc.. In my opinion a 35mm offset would be perfect for the 200 series for proper tire fitment, keeps it out away from the UCA and KDSS bar(my 275/70 R18's rubbed the UCA with stock wheels) I have 3 LC's, one with stock Tundra Steelies, one with 35mm offset wheels and one with 20mm offset wheels, the one with 20mm offset wheels handles the best IMO. I noticed no adverse affects after having the wheels put on and have driven lots of stock 200's and always prefer the way mine drives with the wheels I have, just my 2 cents... I get scrub radius, wheel offset, etc... I'm just throwing down my experience with about 60k hard miles on the setup...

Fair. YMMV, and your experience surely is just as relevant. It's good to know combinations that can work and that the platform is tolerant of.

As all things, being aware of the considerations and tradespace is half the battle. Your perception what "handles better" may also mean different things to different people. There's many dimensions to handling, some improved by a wider track, but some compromised with an aggressive scrub radius. Yet even in engineering, there's rarely a perfect answer. Just giant compromises. So I offer it as knowledge. Shake it around, add some salt, and make your own choices after that.

I'm at 35mm offset (1" spacers) when ideal says I should be ~45mm (.75" spacers). So scrub radius perfection is not necessarily the goal. In this, I prefer the slightly wider track for several reasons, more meaty spacer adapters (safety for my heavy towing) and to keep side obstacles off my side steps.

 

[gaijin]

Most consider offset only aesthetically, but proper offset is correlated to overall tire diameter. A 32-33" tire, ideally should have a 50mm offset. It's why Rock Warriors, designed for a 32.5" 285/65/18 tire, is 50mm.

FYI, Rock Warriors are designed for LT285/70R17 tires - https://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/ins...er TRD Alloy Wheel PTR45-34070-34120 IssF.pdf

HTH

 

[TeCKis300]

^Nothing gets by you. Thank you for the correction!

 

[ArnieC]

How about this...

Level it in front (how? spacers?)

18x8 25 offset
32.5" tall tires (285/65R18)

Looking online, companies like Black Rhino list offsets as low as 12 with a 18x9.5 in their fitment guide for a non-lifted LC200, not sure how accurate that would be though or what size tire they are suggesting.

 

[Markuson]

How about this...

Level it in front (how? spacers?)

18x8 25 offset
32.5" tall tires (285/65R18)

Looking online, companies like Black Rhino list offsets as low as 12 with a 18x9.5 in their fitment guide for a non-lifted LC200, not sure how accurate that would be though or what size tire they are suggesting.

Personally I’d keep a bit of forward rake...but if you NEVER plan off off-road? Maybe it won’t hurt to level it.

It’s just that leveling the front is basically giving away potential down-travel by pushing your CV angles downward, limiting further available downtravel relative to your truck position might have appreciated when dropping into big pothole.

Plus...if you load up the back with people or gear...suddenly you look but-heavy.

But Meh... You are a self-described mall crawler (you get points for honesty!) ...so may as well Bro-Truck-it and level the front...

**I wouldn’t...but we have different intentions.

 

[kjnarmyfj]

Should be fine running 18x8.5 or 9's with 25mm offset with a BFG 285/65 R18 with a 1 inch lift for mall crawling so long as you are willing to cut or heat/reshape some of your inner fender lining and maybe lose the mudflaps. I run 18x9 inch 20mm offset with BFG 285/70 R18's with a 3 inch lift... hope that helps.
View attachment 1897048

what wheel are you running ? and how much the rub ?

 

[kreiten]

what wheel are you running ? and how much the rub ?

I'm running Fuel Anza 18x9 20mm offset with 285/70 R18's in the BFG KM2 flavor... No rubbing at all after a hot knife and 6 pak of beer

 

[RET2]

You may want to know that offset is useful for fitment. But it also plays into suspension geometry called scrub radius. Get it too wrong, and there will be impacts to steering, steering feel, turn radius, steering kickback, and handling. It might be more noticeable to some as extra tire squealing when making tight turns in parking structures.

Most consider offset only aesthetically, but proper offset is correlated to overall tire diameter. A 32-33" tire, ideally should have a 50mm offset. It's why Rock Warriors, designed for a 32.5" 285/65/18 tire, is 50mm.

+20 IMO is really too far outside ideal. Both sticking outside the fender, and creating steering and handling issues relating to scrub radius.

Hate to break it to you but Rock Warriors were NOT designed for a 285/65/18, sorry you're wrong.

 

[Itsky]

He meant 285/70/17, but stated the correct size and gave a ton of useful info.