Help!....engine crud

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Dave E

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Hi,

After IDave's issues with his cooling system crud I decided to check mine. Turns out I have the same crud. I've spend the past 4 days trying to get this stuff out. I'm scraping it out with a screw driver. I'm into the block about 4 inches and seem to be hitting metal when ever I go any direction now. I've tried attaching a garden hose to the drain plug in hopes the pressure whould blow the rest out. I hooked a peice of stiff wire to the drill and tried to "drill" it out. I've applied muratic acid to the plug side and let it sit all day. My question is this. If I hook an air line to the plug how much air pressure can I apply before I run the risk of cracking the block. Can I put 100% acid in the rest of the cooling system, or will it chew through the radiator? I'm up for any other suggestions too.


Thanks
Dave
 
Man, my new truck has the SAME issue. I am running Prestone's stuff for "neglected systems" which you leave in for a few days. I'll let you know what comes of it.
 
afterwards

I plan on adding a heater hose to the drain plug when I get done. That should help the water in that area flow, and help keep the crud from building up. I'll probably add a filter to that line as well.


Thanks
Dave
 
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No do not do the acid thing yet. Instead keep the entire engine together including all cooling systems (radiator, waterpump etc). EG. A complete working motor that you can run like you were about to drive somewhere like work.

Now remove all water from the cooling system, connect everything up again and add water to the radiator along with a handful of caustic soda (Which are available as flakes) and some liquid detergent (1 squirt will do) such as dishwashing liquid. (Place water into a bucket, add the caustic soda and detergent, making sure it's well diluted then add to radiator, and top up the radiator with additional water) Run the motor to operating temperature and leave for running 20 minutes, then dump water.

Repeat the sequence above 4 time more (or till water draining from cooling system is clear), dumping the water after each time. Leaving it to sit will not help as hot water is required as well as the removal of rust, dirt etc, which occurs everytime you dump the water.

WARNING Be aware that the above procedure will clean and remove most, if not all rust/dirt/crud etc from the engine block, radiator core, heater core and water pump. So if your radiator and heater core is held together by rust, leaks will develop in them as the rust that was pluging any holes will be removed. Also the impellor inside the water pump may also need to be replace as it could also be only held together via rust. If the seal within the waterpump has failed, the grease within the bearings will be broken down by the costic enviroment, causing them (bearing) to fail.

Now, to neutralise the remaining caustic soda within the cooling system, add water to the radiator along with half a cup of Hydrochloric acid (available as a liquid) (Again place water into a bucket first, add the acid, pour it into the radiator and top up with additional water), run to operating temperature, dump, don't wait for 20 minutes.

Replace with clean water, adding nothing this time) and run to operating temperature and dump again, which will remove any leftover caustic soda, acid and detergent.

Finally replace with clean water and additives (cooling/antifreeze/etc).

Note: I cannot and will not accept blame/liability should damage occur to any components of the engine if you use the procedure above. You do it at you own risk.

And remember to read the instructions on any chemicals first for your safety.
 
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Torskin, that sounds like a much better alternative to pulling the head. I'm going to try it.

For one thing, the crud in the rear corner definitely has a greasy feel to it, so I think a detergent maybe makes more sense than acid for removing it. The acid may be more active on the rust.

Thanks for the suggestion.
 
No problem, just remember the warning about the radiator and heater core, and the water pump. And don't blame me if something springs a leak and keep an eye out on you water pump incase the bearings do go. then you are gonna ave to replace them before starting up again so you don't crack the block. This means no watching TV etc while running the motor for 20mins

Good luck and let me know how it went. Got the info from the old man.

The Caustic soda is what will remove the rust and dirt. The detergent only helps remove grease and binds the dirt/rust somewhat. The Acid is used to get rid of any leftover caustic soda since it's on the oppisite end of the acid - alkaline scale. Use the acid last, or gods knows what will happen
 
I'll bypass the heater core. So, for me, it is only the radiator itself and the water pump (which also has bad bearings and will be replaced anyway) that I have to be worried about.
 
IDave said:
I'll bypass the heater core. So, for me, it is only the radiator itself and the water pump (which also has bad bearings and will be replaced anyway) that I have to be worried about.
Click to expand...

Good idea Dave - I think I'll try this too (and can bypass the heater w/ my new OEM heater valve that actually turns!)....

Let me know how it works for you (as my 1F isn't running yet).

Tucker
 
Torskin said:
Now, to neutralise the remaining caustic soda within the cooling system, add water to the radiator along with half a cup of Hydrochloric acid (NaOH 33%), run to operating temperature, run for 20 minutes and dump.

Replace with clean water, adding nothing this time) and run to operating temperature and dump again, which will remove any leftover caustic soda.

Finally replace with clean water and additives (cooling/antifreeze/etc).

Note: I cannot and will not accept blame/liability should damage occur to any components of the engine if you use the procedure above. You do it at you own risk.
Click to expand...

Torskin:
Are you saying add Hydrochloric acid (HCl) to neutralize the system or Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH)?

If the inside of the cooling system is loaded with oils and grease I might say use some draino (which is NaOH), however that would also kill off any lube to the water pump bearings.
 
Hydrochloric acid is used to neutralize the caustic soda. (Sorry if the Chemical thingy is wrong as dad gave them to me, so he could be alittle rusty in that area.)
 
ok, well i have searched (a little) for caustic soda, or caustic flakes, for using it in electroylisis stripper, NOW it comes up again here.

well since this stuff is recommended for cleaning crap, and is supposed to be some super nasty
stuff, I WANT SOME.

Where the hell do you find this stuff?
 
do a search in google for both caustic soda and Hydrochloric acid and find a distrubitor closest to you location. Or try looking in the Telephone Book under chemicals i guess.
 
oh and read the safety label before you start using these things cause acid is nasty crap that like to eat things (like clothing, human skin, concrete etc) and caustic soda isn't to great either (i believe)
 
Caustic soda is nothing more than sodium hydroxide, aka lye.

Be careful with this stuff - it can blind you, burn the skin, and other nasty injuries, up to, and including, kill you.

Kirk
 
lol, i have done the caustic research by the web, only thing i could come up with is its used in paper making, but that did little to me getting my hands on it.

I am looking for a common product to get the caustic stuff, i was told caustic flakes come in a box much like laundry detergent, but where do i find this stuff? looked for it, didnt find any.

YOU sure its lye? much easier to find (i think). lye is suppose to be easy to make also?
 
Positive - drop by your local library, grab a copy of the CRC handbook, look it up. That's what I did.

A google search, while less authoratative, will give the same rule.

One source is www.gtflab.com, but they sell in bulk - twelve pounds for US$65!

Your local chemical supply house can supply sodium hydroxide USP pellets in pound quantities.

It used to be that Lewis Red Devil Lye, available in the laundry section of grocery stores, was pure lye - it has had lime, among other things, added to it, which probably makes it *not* a good choice.

Kirk
 
did a bit of searching again, lye used in soap making.

found a 2 lbs for about $14 delievered to me, now searching for a local source.

Any idea what quantity caustic used for such cleaning? or a ratio? I have two very
different cooling systems i need to do.
also ratio HCL to caustic? for neutral.
if just a guessimate then let me know.

Any problems with leaving said soluation to soak for say
a day or so? rather then multi step drain and flush?

Also most/some drano type cleaners have a somewhat chunky substance in them, which probably
would plug a radiator, the ones i have used.

link above no good?
 
Apologies on the link, it is www.gtflabs.com

I wouldn't leave it to soak - lye is very active, and you might wind up with gaskets eaten away, etc.

Red Devil Lye is *not* only sodium hydroxide - many of the soap-makers sites point this out. It used to be.

Be very careful when mixing the lye solution, as lye is very exothermic when mixed with water - tremendous quantities of heat are released! Go slowly, wear eye, face, and hand/arm protection.

Kirk
 
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