Help ASAP! - Safari Turbo Rebuild - Too Much Boost - Heading on camping trip!

[yoda-g3]

I finally got my rig "running" after 3 months of hell trying to get parts sourced / tweaked / custom machined and need it on a 700 mile road trip in two days.

I have a Safari setup and had the original housing rebuilt and wheels replaced with close to same spec. Dual port waste gate actuator was tested OK and hooked back up exactly as removed, (top cap hooked to manifold, bottom cap left exposed) but now I am getting 10-14 psi instead of the 7.5 I had pre rebuild.

Where I am confused is on how to bump the boost back down. There is a fitting inline from the manifold to the top port on the actuator that is SUPPOSED to be some sort of compression check valve according to my mechanic, except when we removed it it looks like PO pulled the ball and spring out so its essentially an empty tube with no possible adjustment. Directly adjacent to it is a 'T' that runs to what looks like a carb jet. We could only deduce that PO bypassed the standard adjuster and put this jet in its place for a constant bleed off?

For kicks I taped over this jet, essentially sending unrestricted boost directly from the manifold to the waste gate actuator and still was seeing 12psi.

Do I have this backwards? We assumed that sending unrestricted boost would would cause the gate to open quicker. We also adjusted the connecting rod just a couple turns tighter that dead even with the arm to the swing valve.

Any ideas??

 

[TheBigBoy]

Hard to diagnose with out looking at it. The boost controller increases boost. When on it lowest setting (completely open, as if its not there) the actuator is working to a preset boost from the turbo. You need to adjust the actual actuator arm from the turbo. To allow it to open earlier (before 12psi).

 

[rockrod]

yep - it sounds like the waste gate spring is set with too much tension and there's not pressure to overcome it to open the gate and bleed off exhaust gas.

 

[clownmidget]

From the sound of it, wouldn't it be a lot easier, quicker and more straightforward to just swap in another actuator that has a lower pre-set? 6 psi actuators abound on the internet - ebay, online turbo shops, etc. I'd have to think any local turbo shop would have one.

Also, from my experience and that of others that have the Safari set-up, there are no "extra" bits to adjust boost as it came from Safari. The original actuator was a single port pre-set to 6 psi and it was just connected to the compressor housing. The actuator arm can be adjusted a bit but that was it. I'd say the stuff you refer to above in your set-up are things the previous owner added on to manage/adjust boost.

 

[yoda-g3]

Well what's interesting is that this is the same actuator its always had, and before the new exhaust housing and rebuild it never had a problem doing 7psi so presumably it was a 7 psi actuator. I just checked the arm and it is about 5mm tighter than the vavle closed. Could that still be too tight? I've read that you should be 3 turns past the valve closed with no tension on it.

 

[clownmidget]

Sounds like a plumbing issue or actuator issue.

You said the actuator tested good so you'll have to make the call on that.

But the plumbing sounds way too complicated for a simple pre-set actuator and internal waste-gate set-up. There should be a hose barb right on the horn of the compressor housing and run a hose to your actuator and that's it. That's how the Safari set-up came from them. That then leaves you with the actuator arm adjustment, but the actuator is pre-set to open once it "sees" a pressure above a certain point and closes below that point - not really adjustable. How much the puck fully opens in the internal wastegate is all you are really adjusting there.

 

[FDNewbie]

Generally speaking, too much boost is caused by either:
- Boost creep (usually only at WOT). Need to make sure your BC is working correctly, and your wastegate is large enough to vent the generated boost.
- A boost leak (the turbo is overspinning trying to generate boost pressure being lost downstream). Check all plastic piping and couplers.

 

[yoda-g3]

There is a plugged off port on the compressor housing, but no barb. Currently I'm getting the boost signal tapped into a vacuum port directly behind the butterfly. I agree that the compressor ports make MUCH more sense.

Before work I decided to unhook the actuator all together and leave the flap wide open, I figure low boost is better than over boost. Surprisingly with it open I can still slowly build 1-4 lbs on moderate throttle and 7-8 lbs briefly wide open. The good news to this is I'm now out of panic / crisis mode for my trip. I'm only hauling 1,500 - 2,000 lbs of gear so low boost and slow spool is fine. I now also have an AFR meter which shows a little on the lean side at times when getting close to 6-7 lbs, but at least I can adjust throttle accordingly. The bad news is I'm a little concerned that even with the flap wide open I can still build that much pressure. I hope that's not a sign that the wastegate opening on my new exhaust housing is too restrictive.

Now that I can calm down I can tackle it more methodically. What sucks is the actuator is a PITA to swap now that everything is buttoned back up, so since it tested fine I'll leave it alone for now. I'm thinking my best course of action is to get it connected to the compressor port for more accuracy, adjust the arm out that 5mm I think it still has, and get rid of that T'd off vent jet. If I need to then dial the boost back up, I can put a new inline wastgate adjuster with the check valve to reduce the boost the actuator is receiving.

 

[clownmidget]

Sounds like you've got a handle on it. You have that ATP "ultimate" wastegate setup correct? And that is dumping directly into 3" exhaust? And your turbine housing a 0.82 AR as well? I have a hard time thinking that would give you boost creep...so how and where are you measuring boost?

 

[Wheelingnoob]

There is a plugged off port on the compressor housing, but no barb. Currently I'm getting the boost signal tapped into a vacuum port directly behind the butterfly. I agree that the compressor ports make MUCH more sense.

Before work I decided to unhook the actuator all together and leave the flap wide open, I figure low boost is better than over boost. Surprisingly with it open I can still slowly build 1-4 lbs on moderate throttle and 7-8 lbs briefly wide open. The good news to this is I'm now out of panic / crisis mode for my trip. I'm only hauling 1,500 - 2,000 lbs of gear so low boost and slow spool is fine. I now also have an AFR meter which shows a little on the lean side at times when getting close to 6-7 lbs, but at least I can adjust throttle accordingly. The bad news is I'm a little concerned that even with the flap wide open I can still build that much pressure. I hope that's not a sign that the wastegate opening on my new exhaust housing is too restrictive.

Now that I can calm down I can tackle it more methodically. What sucks is the actuator is a PITA to swap now that everything is buttoned back up, so since it tested fine I'll leave it alone for now. I'm thinking my best course of action is to get it connected to the compressor port for more accuracy, adjust the arm out that 5mm I think it still has, and get rid of that T'd off vent jet. If I need to then dial the boost back up, I can put a new inline wastgate adjuster with the check valve to reduce the boost the actuator is receiving.

With the waste gate off and the port wide open you should have very little boost <2psi and that boost would come in right at the top of the rev range. To me it sounds like you have narrowed it down to two things and the biggest culprit is the WG port size. Once you have that sorted (and running little boost with it open) reattach the WG and run a line straight from the compressor port to the WG actuator.

 

[yoda-g3]

Sounds like you've got a handle on it. You have that ATP "ultimate" wastegate setup correct? And that is dumping directly into 3" exhaust? And your turbine housing a 0.82 AR as well? I have a hard time thinking that would give you boost creep...so how and where are you measuring boost?

In essence yes. I have a flange that has the WG flapper attached to it, which sits between the .82 exhaust housing and my own 'version' of the ATP Ultimate. (We basically got an Ulitmate flange without the v-band adapter, and welded it directly to our own 3" downpipe. Flow should be very similar to stock Safari elbow.)

Boost is measured off of a tapped flat spot on the driver's side of the manifold through a copper tube that runs to a VDO gauge by the shifter. You can see a pic HERE just behind the dip stick.

 

[yoda-g3]

Here is a pic of the downpipe pre ceramic coating.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Here is a pic of the downpipe pre ceramic coating.

View attachment 660193

There will be no flow issues with that down pipe, your issue is in the WG flapper size and its ability to bypass exhaust gasses to control boost.

 

[yoda-g3]

With the waste gate off and the port wide open you should have very little boost <2psi and that boost would come in right at the top of the rev range. To me it sounds like you have narrowed it down to two things and the biggest culprit is the WG port size. Once you have that sorted (and running little boost with it open) reattach the WG and run a line straight from the compressor port to the WG actuator.

Crap if it is the WG port size that's going to be a opening it up again.... Though I guess maybe its a good sign that it's hitting 7-8 open as I will probably settle on 9lbs eventually once get my pre-existing lean condition figured out, so as long as its not too restrictive for that I might be fine.

Where can I get a barb for the compressor housing? Is there a standard T3/T4 thread pitch size I could just go grab at an auto parts or fitting store that you know off the top of your head?

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Crap if it is the WG port size that's going to be a opening it up again.... Though I guess maybe its a good sign that it's hitting 7-8 open as I will probably settle on 9lbs eventually once get my pre-existing lean condition figured out, so as long as its not too restrictive for that I might be fine.

Where can I get a barb for the compressor housing? Is there a standard T3/T4 thread pitch size I could just go grab at an auto parts or fitting store that you know off the top of your head?

Ultimately fixing it and running a WG will improve boost response but for the time being it should be ok.

In my experience they can vary a bit in thread size the most common by far is 1/8th NPT.

Also when you say a bit lean what are we talking here? (11:1 or 14:1 and are you WOT?)

 

[yoda-g3]

Ultimately fixing it and running a WG will improve boost response but for the time being it should be ok.

In my experience they can vary a bit in thread size the most common by far is 1/8th NPT.

Also when you say a bit lean what are we talking here? (11:1 or 14:1 and are you WOT?)

Well we're working under the assumption I was running lean based off of a cracked manifold and turbine housing caused by heat, and some old dyno charts that I didn't realize how bad they were.

Now that I have an AFR most of my moderate cruising seems to be near 14.7:1, and holds in the 12-13 range while heavy accelerating with sliding up into the 15-16 range on occasion at WOT. This is only after a 22 mile drive to work this morning and it was hard to really watch things while driving since she speeds up so fast.) Last night when it crept up to 15psi I was hitting 17:1....

My plan after this is settled is to get some dyno runs done so I can get a true read out under load.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Well we're working under the assumption I was running lean based off of a cracked manifold and turbine housing caused by heat, and some old dyno charts that I didn't realize how bad they were.

Now that I have an AFR most of my moderate cruising seems to be near 14.7:1, and holds in the 12-13 range while heavy accelerating with sliding up into the 15-16 range on occasion at WOT. This is only after a 22 mile drive to work this morning and it was hard to really watch things while driving since she speeds up so fast.) Last night when it crept up to 15psi I was hitting 17:1....

My plan after this is settled is to get some dyno runs done so I can get a true read out under load.

Ok be very very careful!! 12-13 under hard acceleration is very lean. In the 15-16 range you are going to break something very fast (i.e. melted piston, cracked rings....) hell in the 13AFR range you are likely to as well. I always back off when I see 12.5 AFR under load its my cut off point I know its not safe above that.

I would recommend not boosting it at all from the sounds of it. Something is very off if its getting that lean. Do you still have that Unichip prom for the ECU? it sounds like its tuned very very badly.

Just to give you some personal experience with running lean I had a built 2jz running 11psi and a flash (less than 1sec) to 17 ARR (2nd fuel pump gave up) cost me 3 pistons and 4 broken rings.

I cant stress enough how lean you are running.

Can you easily take the Unichip out for a base run to see if its any better?

 

[clownmidget]

boost

Here's your photo showing where it's already tapped for the elbow. Looks like there's a bolt there, just pull it and match the threads for your barbed elbow.

I would give serious thought to eliminating the UniChip given what you are seeing.

 

[yoda-g3]

I would give serious thought to eliminating the UniChip given what you are seeing.

This is exactly my plan. Between what you and Landtank and Turbocruiser have told me in the past I want it out of there. I just hate changing too much at once. Now that we're at this point I think I'll leave the gate off to minimize boost and tackle the unichip.

Do you have any pointers on it? I haven't even researched yet where its normally located. Behind the glove box? Also I'm assuming its tapping into an intercepting a crap load of signals, so I'm assuming it should just be as easy as cutting it out them wire matching everything back together?

 

[yoda-g3]

Ok be very very careful!! 12-13 under hard acceleration is very lean. In the 15-16 range you are going to break something very fast (i.e. melted piston, cracked rings....) hell in the 13AFR range you are likely to as well. I always back off when I see 12.5 AFR under load its my cut off point I know its not safe above that.

I would recommend not boosting it at all from the sounds of it. Something is very off if its getting that lean. Do you still have that Unichip prom for the ECU? it sounds like its tuned very very badly.

Just to give you some personal experience with running lean I had a built 2jz running 11psi and a flash (less than 1sec) to 17 ARR (2nd fuel pump gave up) cost me 3 pistons and 4 broken rings.

I cant stress enough how lean you are running.

Can you easily take the Unichip out for a base run to see if its any better?

Crap, well you just put a shiver down my spine, as soon as I can figure out where the damn thing is I'm ripping it out. is 14.5's ok for highway cruising?