Enough power from 2f for 36" TSL's??

[haystax]

I need to know if a 2f motor has enough power to turn 36" TSL's. its going to have a 4 speed tranny, 3 speed case, 4.10 gears. Its mainly for the trails, it might see a little pavement around town during the summer. Basically i want to know if i can climb a steep ass hill covered with rocks in 4 low without bogging down to the point where i have to slip the clutch just to get up the damn hill.

Also, how would an F motor do with the same setup??

I think you will need to do some major drivetrain work to get to where you want to be. After my SOA I ran a set of 35's for about 2 weeks until I gave up and put on 33's. The tires really made my very strong '76 2F into a complete dog. I have stock 4spd tranny and t-case with stock 4.10 gears and don't like the power at all with 35" tires. The 2F is a great engine, tons of torque and lugging power. That is the only thing that will make highway travel possible is you can grab an extra gear and lug the motor and it will pull. Big tires help with momentum because of the rotating mass acting as a heavy flywheel, you can lug the 2F and go alright. I just don't see it being the right choice for a long steep high wheelspeed type situation where acceleration and horsepower are needed.

I would say go with just a Toybox/Rockbox and then you will be perfect. I drove my friend's Heep with the 420 and it is like driving a dump truck. The stock 4 spd really spoils you. I know the low 7:1 on the 420 is great for trails but the rest of the gears are spaced pretty wide. Plus finding a good 420 is tough, 465 easier to find but both have parts availibility issues. The 420 adds length to the drivetrain if that is an issue, I know the Toybox is pricey but the gearing would be worth it.

 

[saint60]

you may not want to hear this, but i have always been happy with my V8. it takes some work, but it is cool. plus when i was looking into rebuilding a 2f or getting a 350 it was way cheaper to build a 350. the 4 speed tranny has also treated me well. IMOP i don't think you should run much bigger that 33's with a 2f. anyway, hope that helps. even if just for ideas.

 

[Mace]

33's are the limit???

lol

I guess my 39.5" iroks are a bad idea

I ran 2F/sm420 for a year with 36" tires. And a similar setup for 2 years with 38" tires.

I also ran a 2F/stock 4speed/stock tcase on 32's with 3.70's for about 12 years.
I never got in a position that the 2F could not spin the tires going up a hill. It did require some momentum occasionally but the power was there.

What makes a V8 so much better? How much HP do you need? Or want? Little 4 banger mini trucks are getting away with 44's in comps (Scott @ rockbuggysupply)

Again it all comes down to what is cheapest for you. That seems to be the main issue. I find Free 2F's quite often. Swapping a V8 into your rig if you do not have superior fab skills will cost money.

 

[Mace]

BTW, a SM420 is a bit more than 1" shorter than a 4 speed tranny.

 

[haystax]

I don't think 33's are the limit, for just a trail rig I don't see a problem with whatever you want to run before you get scared of breaking birfs and axle shafts. I personally needed more range and mileage than I had with the 35's. I worked it out to around 4 mpg during the first weekend trip. I couldn't spin the 35's and go anywhere, once I spun i slid backwards. I did have super crappy BFG AT off my buddies pickup just to try out the tire size. I think a decent tire would have dug in and I would have powered out.

I personally think you would have no problem with 36's once you addressed the gearing issues. I don't think the answer is a V8, that just creates more problems. Just gear it down and run the 2F.

 

[TJDIV]

Mace is right.


Go with a 420 if you're going off road in it, and toss the 36's on it. If you don't like it, go to 33's and it'll be better. Both would still be fun and have you rollin' in a CRUISER.

 

[Benjitis1]

Thanks for the info. Thats exactly what i needed to know. Im gonna try and find a good running 2F, and the cruiser already has an early 3 speed t-case. I drive a dumptruck once in a while and i like the idea of having a SM420 with granny 1st gear on the trail. But whats this about parts availability?? What parts?? Rebuild kits or what?? How much $$$do they usually run for?? Also, if i bought the SM420, what exactly would i need to buy to get it mounted to a 3speed case and 2F?? Who sells the stuff and how much does it gennerally cost??

Any idea on how much a rebuild of a 2F costs?? Also, how much would a milled head help and how much $$$ does that cost to have done??

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond, sorry about all the questions, but im a Noobie/newbie

 

[bkfj40]

I currently run a soa 1977 fj55 with stock drivetrain (2f, 4 speed) and really have no problem turning my 36" tsl...it isn't a speed demon on a hill, but it's a cruiser...I ran to Tellico from Virginia (6 hours) and up to Paragon (4 hours) and kept it around 75mph the entire trip (minus a few hills) at one point, I was going down a hill and had it over 90mph, but I had to slow down for some cars in front of me...it is amazing how cars move over when they see a 55 behind them coming up quick

on the trails? well, lets just say that I'm looking at starting with an sm465 and probably will put a dual case behind that when it is all said and done...

now if I could just find that guy making the sm465 conversion stuff

bk

 

[sanjuancruiser]

I have to add my 2 cts. Maybe something to aspire to or @ least check is this. a sweet 2f, H55 w/split case, 4:88s and replace the axles for 78 or newer(for the 30 spline+disc). I have this set up in my 45 and it is great. I also have GM TBI which if I can get mapped right will be sweet. I run 35s and so far in the rocks it fits the bill perfect. I regularly wheel between 5000-11000 ft and can still spin 'em on the gravel(we're not talkin' NHRA though). The 420/465 swap would be sweet if you can live w/the dump truck effect-IMOP no way get a toybox down the road.

 

[Overlord]

33's are the limit???

lol

I guess my 39.5" iroks are a bad idea

I ran 2F/sm420 for a year with 36" tires. And a similar setup for 2 years with 38" tires.

I also ran a 2F/stock 4speed/stock tcase on 32's with 3.70's for about 12 years.
I never got in a position that the 2F could not spin the tires going up a hill. It did require some momentum occasionally but the power was there.

What makes a V8 so much better? How much HP do you need? Or want? Little 4 banger mini trucks are getting away with 44's in comps (Scott @ rockbuggysupply)

Again it all comes down to what is cheapest for you. That seems to be the main issue. I find Free 2F's quite often. Swapping a V8 into your rig if you do not have superior fab skills will cost money.

Have you seen the lastest generation longfields?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=272226&page=1&pp=25

39s shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Mace]

Have you seen the lastest generation longfields?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=272226&page=1&pp=25

39s shouldn't be a problem.

Actually I was never able to break a first generation longfield with my 38's

They are amazing. Period.

I switched to a D60 front 14 bolt rear because I started to snap rear axle far to easily..

My 72 and the GPW project will get longs in them..

 

[Overlord]

Actually I was never able to break a first generation longfield with my 38's

They are amazing. Period.

I switched to a D60 front 14 bolt rear because I started to snap rear axle far to easily..

My 72 and the GPW project will get longs in them..

PIG on pirate is suppose to come out with chromo rears for the mini's. I've emailed him about making me some 4340 FF rears. He said if I send him my axles, he can make just about anything.

I don't see d60s in my future.

 

[Mace]

lol
right after I took the plunge to 60/14 bolt I got on the horn to Pig (dave) about Coilovers. I told him what I had and he brought up that he was seriously thinking about making 4340 shafts for a Tacoma rear axle (what I was using at the time)

Bastard

 

[Overlord]

lol
right after I took the plunge to 60/14 bolt I got on the horn to Pig (dave) about Coilovers. I told him what I had and he brought up that he was seriously thinking about making 4340 shafts for a Tacoma rear axle (what I was using at the time)

Bastard

LOL, that's life, I guess. I might go with d60 for more width though. Although I've been toying with retubing my axles for more width.

Now, if I could get my hands on some portal axles that would be sweet. If someone came out with some 3/4 gear bolt-on/weld-on portals, then I would be golden. While I'm dreaming, I also want a 3 speed transfer case to go with those portals cause of the deep gear reduction of the portals. Like an under/direct/over case, like an atlas. One can always dream.

 

[Mace]

I have a set of FJ60 axles that I might play a bit with.

I have a extension (~2") for the short side (read custom inners though)

The bolt/weld on portals are probably not that far away.. However, getting a reasonable amount of travel out of your cruiser and still reamiling low is hard without a buggy frame designed for portals.

Just get a crawler box.

I have 70:1 and 150:1 (soon to be 200:1) available to me. And I wonder why the 30 spline rear did not hold up