Dumb question - what do these buttons do on an LX?

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Agreed that it's aggressive, but my impression from very limited use is that the additional work is to achieve very precise vehicle speed control. Coming down the back side of a rock, for example, is met with much noise and vibration rather than just letting the vehicle come down smoothly.

It doesn't control throttle to each axle. ;-) It's not torque vectoring in any way. It's simply controlling wheel spin based upon the allowance set in the terrain mode. Perhaps we'll get true torque vectoring (or electric motors!) in the 300. ;-)

Honestly, I couldn't tell you if ATRAC is completely defeated by brake application. The manual doesn't list brakes as a disabling factor, but that's probably not a definitively list. I know VSC is not disabled by brakes, just not sure about ATRAC. Next time I'm out I'll see if I can get a wheel in the air to verify.
 
‘13 LX and I use crawl control once or twice a year. Only when I feel I’m almost stuck or can’t get it done on my own. This summer it was once on the beach, we had an extremely dry summer and coming over a dune to get back to the road I couldn’t get it done on my own, switched crawl on and made it. Then 2 weeks ago getting to our caribou base camp on a short, steep, loose, rutted out section, switched to crawl and made it up no problem. Yes it is jerky, but I’ve always thought it is a “please save me” type of function and only use it when I have to and for the shortest possible time.
 
OregonLC said:
Agreed that it's aggressive, but my impression from very limited use is that the additional work is to achieve very precise vehicle speed control. Coming down the back side of a rock, for example, is met with much noise and vibration rather than just letting the vehicle come down smoothly.

It doesn't control throttle to each axle. ;) It's not torque vectoring in any way. It's simply controlling wheel spin based upon the allowance set in the terrain mode. Perhaps we'll get true torque vectoring (or electric motors!) in the 300. ;)

Honestly, I couldn't tell you if ATRAC is completely defeated by brake application. The manual doesn't list brakes as a disabling factor, but that's probably not a definitively list. I know VSC is not disabled by brakes, just not sure about ATRAC. Next time I'm out I'll see if I can get a wheel in the air to verify.
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Not sure about your year, but later LC have 5-speed CRAWL instead of 3-speed on earlier models.

Not sure about your definition, but TORQUE VECTORING in other cars refer to pushing torque to the outside wheel (on SAME axle) around corners to prevent understeer. Torque vectoring is commonly not used to refer to torque distribution to front / rear axles...unless you’re referring to AWD or our Torsen center diff.
 

What is Crawl Control in Toyota Trucks? | Toyota Knoxville

If you plan on off-roading, Crawl Control is an extremely useful tool. Read more about this useful feature found the Toyota trucks and SUVs.
www.toyotaknoxville.com www.toyotaknoxville.com

Quotes:

The control is essentially a powerful, intuitive sensor system that judges driving conditions and adjusts acceleration and the brakes to each wheel as the vehicle moves over rough terrain.

Crawl Control adjusts each wheel’s output based on the condition of the terrain. In sand, for example, it’s easy for a truck to dig deeper and get stuck. But with Crawl Control, each wheel works independently to help drivers dig their way out.

...this information is delivered to the computer, which independently calculates output for each wheel based on the road condition. Crawl Control applies more acceleration, or more braking, to each tire....
 
From what I've understood the way it works by sending more power to one wheel is locking up the wheel that doesn't have traction harder than the wheel that does have grip. Therefore since we have open diffs the power goes to the path of least resistance
 
I think we're debating semantics here, but the 200 can not add power to any specific wheel per se. The only thing it can do is brake a wheel (or wheels) as it sees fit to minimize wheel spin (or control vehicle speed in the case of crawl). I get that the marketing department likes to use words like 'applies more power to each tire', but in reality the only thing it can do is brake the wheels it wants to slow down. I think Toyota is also trying to sell an 'electronic hero' to the American market who can't be bothered with investing the time to learn proper technique (gross overgeneralization, I know). And, if I'm being completely honest, I'm probably professing a bias I have based upon my purist/old-school view.

Increasing torque (torque vectoring), OTOH, is using a differential to bias torque to a specific axle (F/R) or wheel (L/R) to achieve a performance target. The advantage to this is you're not losing/wasting energy on brake heat. The 200 doesn't do this.

I've seen the vids with a 200 and Tacoma in soft sand where the truck digs itself out. Those are great marketing vids. And it may indeed be a situation where the feature is highly effective. In those vids the truck often takes several seconds to sort things out then slowly by slowly optimizes its available traction. Next time I'm in deep sand I'll try it out. Where I've not seen crawl used, however, is on a steep climb with big obstacles. Nor have I seen where it frees a vehicle from slimy mud. These are the locations in my travels where I'm most likely to pull winch line or drop maxtrax. On obstacles, there's no way I'm letting crawl have free reign. And really, rarely do I even hear ATRAC activating when I'm on a technical climb. It's all about being smooth, picking a line, and airing down. Two foot it, watch your spotter, overcome the obstacle, plan your line for the next. In mud, it's about momentum and power. If mud stopped the truck you're probably winching (or using a kinetic rope off another truck). If you're moving you want to keep moving with a lot of power which will result in a lot of wheel spin, not a situation for crawl.

But....all this talk has made me curious now to purposefully exercise it and see if it's worth the noise and vibration. Who knows, maybe I'll be a convert. ;) To date, not using crawl has never been limiting.
 
OregonLC said:
I think we're debating semantics here, but the 200 can not add power to any specific wheel per se. The only thing it can do is brake a wheel (or wheels) as it sees fit to minimize wheel spin (or control vehicle speed in the case of crawl). I get that the marketing department likes to use words like 'applies more power to each tire', but in reality the only thing it can do is brake the wheels it wants to slow down. I think Toyota is also trying to sell an 'electronic hero' to the American market who can't be bothered with investing the time to learn proper technique (gross overgeneralization, I know). And, if I'm being completely honest, I'm probably professing a bias I have based upon my purist/old-school view.

Increasing torque (torque vectoring), OTOH, is using a differential to bias torque to a specific axle (F/R) or wheel (L/R) to achieve a performance target. The advantage to this is you're not losing/wasting energy on brake heat. The 200 doesn't do this.

I've seen the vids with a 200 and Tacoma in soft sand where the truck digs itself out. Those are great marketing vids. And it may indeed be a situation where the feature is highly effective. In those vids the truck often takes several seconds to sort things out then slowly by slowly optimizes its available traction. Next time I'm in deep sand I'll try it out. Where I've not seen crawl used, however, is on a steep climb with big obstacles. Nor have I seen where it frees a vehicle from slimy mud. These are the locations in my travels where I'm most likely to pull winch line or drop maxtrax. On obstacles, there's no way I'm letting crawl have free reign. And really, rarely do I even hear ATRAC activating when I'm on a technical climb. It's all about being smooth, picking a line, and airing down. Two foot it, watch your spotter, overcome the obstacle, plan your line for the next. In mud, it's about momentum and power. If mud stopped the truck you're probably winching (or using a kinetic rope off another truck). If you're moving you want to keep moving with a lot of power which will result in a lot of wheel spin, not a situation for crawl.

But....all this talk has made me curious now to purposefully exercise it and see if it's worth the noise and vibration. Who knows, maybe I'll be a convert. ;) To date, not using crawl has never been limiting.
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Yes, the brakes are diverting power to the appropriate wheel(s). But throttle is also being controlled.

Your "torque vectoring" by way of differential bias torque to specific axle...........200 does this.......via TORSEN CENTER DIFF. What did you think the Torsen was doing all this time while you're driving?

Left and right via ATRAC or CRAWL...and yes, you do generate heat. A locker is where it is nice to have at the axle.

Most torque vectoring at axle level outside of off-roading is being done with brakes FYI. Audi, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, etc. All brake based torque vectoring. Acura SH-AWD is the most famous one where the outside wheel is OVER-DRIVEN via gears to do torque vectoring.

Look at the video i posted on 1st page (involving the Prado vs. G vs. Jeep) for examples of CRAWL over technical path.

CRAWL is NOT for mud.....that is where MTS comes in. CRAWL is about SLOW going over difficult / technical terrain. I have never said CRAWL was meant for mud or anything like that.

The reason that you don't hear ATRAC in your climb is because ATRAC requires significant wheel speed differences between wheels on the SAME axle before it start intervening. And this is why ATRAC is LESS effective over slow technical off-road path. It reacts far too late and by that time, you lost momentum. CRAWL is better than ATRAC because of this.
 
Yeah, I know. In your mind Crawl is enhanced ATRAC. In my mind the system is ATRAC + Cruise Control. The discussion has definitely opened my mind to playing with it in the wild on my next trip.
 
OregonLC said:
I think we're debating semantics here, but the 200 can not add power to any specific wheel per se. The only thing it can do is brake a wheel (or wheels) as it sees fit to minimize wheel spin (or control vehicle speed in the case of crawl). I get that the marketing department likes to use words like 'applies more power to each tire', but in reality the only thing it can do is brake the wheels it wants to slow down. I think Toyota is also trying to sell an 'electronic hero' to the American market who can't be bothered with investing the time to learn proper technique (gross overgeneralization, I know). And, if I'm being completely honest, I'm probably professing a bias I have based upon my purist/old-school view.


But....all this talk has made me curious now to purposefully exercise it and see if it's worth the noise and vibration. Who knows, maybe I'll be a convert. ;) To date, not using crawl has never been limiting.
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When you put your vehicle on a lift and put it in drive and hold one wheel the power goes to the other wheel. Isn’t this “adding power to the other wheel? It has been my experience that crawl provides the maximum torque to each wheel without allowing slippage.
The best example of crawl usage came to me on a steep, slushy hill where I had spun out and come to a stop. I put the truck in reverse and tried to back down only to be unable to control anything and sliding about 10 feet with the front wheels locked up before I could stop. Out of desperation I engaged crawl, put it in reverse and, with a leap of faith, took my foot off the brake. I backed down about 100 yards with absolutely no drama.
And the noiseis something that bothered me at first but after actually using crawl I don’t notice it at all. Kind of like when you’re anchored on a lake and the waves are slapping under the bow, it bugs some people and not others.
 
I have a question... this summer I was on a really steep descent with cliff to my left and slick rocks and gravel under me. I put it into crawl mode and found it did a great job getting me down safely and with less white-knuckling...haha. Is this a valid use for crawl, or no?
 
Absolutely. I find it tracks much straighter since it is controlling each wheel independently. I tried it in some wet mudstone/siltstone with deep ruts that would trap it if it understeered and it just chugged perfectly down hill.
 
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