I like the better fuel economy of the 95+ vehicles as well.
Difference between a 94 and 95
- Thread starter MDarius
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better fuel economy? 
.5 mpg better?
.5 mpg better?
gnx7 said:better fuel economy?
more like 2 mpg I think.
- Thread starter
- #25
For as few miles as I'll drive it, and the cost savings over a 95 I should get on this particular rig, I'll take the MPG loss.
Lucy said:
along these lines you might look for one of those rare 93s with a semi-floater in the rear. That way you can avoid the benefits of ABS and because those axles come with drum brakes you get the added bonus of increased stopping distance.
School me. Why the semi-floater in the rear without ABS with the drum brake? Are they better than the full-floater rear end and ABS with disk brake?landtank said:
Thanks for the idea, Rick!
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- #29
hatman406080 said:
The sarcasm was lost. That's the problem with typing instead of talking. He was mocking me for not wanting my kids head knocked off by an airbag. As long as I'm not concerned about safety, might as well get the other crappy features from a '93.
I'm easily swayed though. I'm actually considering making the kids wait to practice driving until they are tall enough to be safe behind an airbag.
My '93 fzj80 250k+mi.
- Thread starter
- #31
Nice pic. I like it.
Lucy said:
a tangential post, but still relevant:
my wife used to be of this opinion but 1 totaled 4runner later, that has changed. my wife is 5'1", ~120lbs, and has relatively short legs. she has to sit clost to the wheel just so she can reach the pedals. this last january, she was driving to work and hit black ice at ~40mph. she did a 360, hopped a curb, travelled partway up a hill, and hit a sawed-off telephone pole. the airbags deployed, the driver's side wheel was bent back ~90 degrees from normal, the frame was bent beyond repair, etc. she is now a *huge* fan of airbags because she knows with how hard she stopped that her injuries would have been much worse without the airbags. she walked away with a stiff neck, stiff lower back / hip jounts, and bruising across her chest (the last 2 from the pressure of the seatbelt holding her in place). the next car we shopped for had to have airbags because of this accident(now we own a '96 cruiser). just my 2 cents from the viewpoint of a shorty who has had to use them...
wally
- Thread starter
- #33
Thanks Wally. As I said, I'm easily swayed. I was under the impression that in her situation she would have experienced more severe injuries than that. I'm glad to hear it worked for her. My daughter is about 5'1'' now.
Has anyone had a BAD experience with an airbag?
Has anyone had a BAD experience with an airbag?
Lucy said:
I am sure you can find someone with a bad experience but you need to weigh these against the numbers with a good experience and you need to determine for yourself it that person came out better than they would have without the bag deploying.
Serious accidents are horrific, especially if you or your loved ones are involved and being a "good driver" or a defensive driver has nothing to do with it. Luck, good or bad is in play more often than not.
-B-
my mother who was at the time 68 years old got in an accident and had the bags deploy. She's around 5' 9" tall and slender build. She only suffered some abraisions to her face, not real bad at all and walked away from the accident with just some soreness. Considering her age and brittleness, I think that's really good. My understanding is that most injuries are with children under 70 lbs because they can't take the force.
- Thread starter
- #36
I hear you. I guess I've heard enough both ways. I think the real answer is just to keep them in the back seat until they are big enough that it's not a concern. My wife is 5'8'' and I'm 6'4'', so neither of us has a concern with it, and actually prefer the airbags.
I know seatbelts have saved my life back in the day that they were controversial. I will always wear one. Now any thinking person knows wearing your seatbelt is the right thing to do. I think airbags are ready to move from the controversial to the thinking person level.
Any experiences will be anecdotal, and data gathered from other sources is questionable because the gathering methods are unknown.
I know seatbelts have saved my life back in the day that they were controversial. I will always wear one. Now any thinking person knows wearing your seatbelt is the right thing to do. I think airbags are ready to move from the controversial to the thinking person level.
Any experiences will be anecdotal, and data gathered from other sources is questionable because the gathering methods are unknown.
Lucy said:
I did also give you a hard time about that in jest
. You are right to consider the safety of airbags given your kids' size.I'm not sure I'd want to teach my kids to drive a large SUV - in general a powerful engine and high center of gravity don't fit too many 16 year olds very well. Given that rolls are probably the most lethal crashes these days, that's what I'd focus on.
If it were me, I'd want a better center of gravity and side curtain airbags plus second gen front airbags that deploy with less force. Yes, the 80 is great, but it's tough to make the case that this is a safe vehicle for new drivers compared to later model options in the rollover category.
I only bought an 80 due to offroad use and my experience in driving a rig like this (granted mine is modified substantially) - I wouldn't buy anything for road use that didn't have side curtain airbags with the roll sensors. You watch the crash tests and side curtain bags can take a vehicle from "poor" to "recommended" with no other changes.
Nay
For what its worth...
My twin boys are 4.75 years old now. My wife and I own two '96 Land Cruisers. Mine is modified, hers is not. We are planning for the boys to learn to drive on the Land Cruisers and they'll be theirs when they turn 18. The one with the highest GPA gets choice. Thats a long way out, and the unforseen may interfere. I consider these to be the safest vehicles on the road. I can't think of any other vehicle that would be survivable in a crash that wasn't survivable in an 80.
The other side of this is social responsibility though. The 'other vehicle' in nearly any colision will probably be severely
up.
My road car is a 2001 Z-28 Camaro. I've rolled through my mind what the results of a colision between it and my built up '96 would look like. My vision of this isn't pretty for the driver of the Camaro. As a result I drive the '96 TLC like an old man and give all other vehicles the right of way. Even Heaps.
Just my humble opinion. YMMV.
My twin boys are 4.75 years old now. My wife and I own two '96 Land Cruisers. Mine is modified, hers is not. We are planning for the boys to learn to drive on the Land Cruisers and they'll be theirs when they turn 18. The one with the highest GPA gets choice. Thats a long way out, and the unforseen may interfere. I consider these to be the safest vehicles on the road. I can't think of any other vehicle that would be survivable in a crash that wasn't survivable in an 80.
The other side of this is social responsibility though. The 'other vehicle' in nearly any colision will probably be severely
up.My road car is a 2001 Z-28 Camaro. I've rolled through my mind what the results of a colision between it and my built up '96 would look like. My vision of this isn't pretty for the driver of the Camaro. As a result I drive the '96 TLC like an old man and give all other vehicles the right of way. Even Heaps.
Just my humble opinion. YMMV.
- Thread starter
- #39
It's all good Nay. I was having a rough day.
This'll probably get us moved to chat, but my first car was a '64 Olds with nearly 400 horsepower. I nearly killed myself many times, and it got me into as much trouble as it got me out of. I like the 80's because they don't race, and I think they are pretty safe. Of all SUV's I have driven and tested I feel the least tippy in this one...aside from the GM monsters. I agree they are a little large for the kids to learn in, but I don't have a j**p anymore, and my Subaru just won't handle the dirt roads (front wheel drive, not AWD.). I now value the experience I gained being stupid in my Olds. Drving out of control being stupid helped me learn how to handle emergency situations. I want my kids to get experience NOT being stupid. I have considered getting motorcycles or quads for this purpose as well, but that's another $$$ pit I'm not ready to jump in to.
I have time, and I'm open to suggestions. But...this last weekend driving with my 10 year-old daughter was a great experience. It built her confidence, gave her bragging rights, and on the way down the mountain she gazed admiringly at me and said, 'I like you, dad.' Keeping her safe, and keeping that relationship through her teenage years is what it's all about.
This'll probably get us moved to chat, but my first car was a '64 Olds with nearly 400 horsepower. I nearly killed myself many times, and it got me into as much trouble as it got me out of. I like the 80's because they don't race, and I think they are pretty safe. Of all SUV's I have driven and tested I feel the least tippy in this one...aside from the GM monsters. I agree they are a little large for the kids to learn in, but I don't have a j**p anymore, and my Subaru just won't handle the dirt roads (front wheel drive, not AWD.). I now value the experience I gained being stupid in my Olds. Drving out of control being stupid helped me learn how to handle emergency situations. I want my kids to get experience NOT being stupid. I have considered getting motorcycles or quads for this purpose as well, but that's another $$$ pit I'm not ready to jump in to.
I have time, and I'm open to suggestions. But...this last weekend driving with my 10 year-old daughter was a great experience. It built her confidence, gave her bragging rights, and on the way down the mountain she gazed admiringly at me and said, 'I like you, dad.' Keeping her safe, and keeping that relationship through her teenage years is what it's all about.
If you want an interesting comparison to a late model vehicle, check out a new Nissan Pathfinder. They are almost the exact same dimensions as an 80, but you get an fully independent suspension and all the modern safety goodies (2nd gen front airbags, 3 curtain side airbags, traction control and all that jazz), plus a 4.0L V6 pumping 270 HP that still gets 20 mpg on the highway.
Of course, an 80 is much cheaper and much cooler (and much older), but Nissan is worth checking out these days if you are really interested in a comparison. Their new truck engines are just outstanding and, unlike Toyota, Nissan actually packages the stuff you really want in their middle model instead of making you buy a ton of junk you don't need just to get what you want.
I sure don't think the 80 is the safest vehicle on the road or even close - those are some rosy colored lenses. In my neck of the woods, (sober) kids tend to get killed when they take corners too fast on backroads and then roll it. Given side curtain airbags and traction control are available on most models these days, I just can't imagine not having them for my kids. That's why I bought a Nissan Quest when I was minivan shopping - side curtain were standard vs. the Sienna where they are a premium upgrade, and IIHS has rated the Nissan better than the Toyota in side impacts even when you upgrade the Sienna to side curtain airbags. That is just huge peace of mind.
There is a reason the insurance on my new minivan is half the insurance on my 11 year old 80. If you want to get them a safe car, get them a minivan. That might sound uncool, but just imagine being a teen with a vehicle that big with two rows of fold flat seats
[chat off]
Nay
Of course, an 80 is much cheaper and much cooler (and much older), but Nissan is worth checking out these days if you are really interested in a comparison. Their new truck engines are just outstanding and, unlike Toyota, Nissan actually packages the stuff you really want in their middle model instead of making you buy a ton of junk you don't need just to get what you want.
I sure don't think the 80 is the safest vehicle on the road or even close - those are some rosy colored lenses. In my neck of the woods, (sober) kids tend to get killed when they take corners too fast on backroads and then roll it. Given side curtain airbags and traction control are available on most models these days, I just can't imagine not having them for my kids. That's why I bought a Nissan Quest when I was minivan shopping - side curtain were standard vs. the Sienna where they are a premium upgrade, and IIHS has rated the Nissan better than the Toyota in side impacts even when you upgrade the Sienna to side curtain airbags. That is just huge peace of mind.
There is a reason the insurance on my new minivan is half the insurance on my 11 year old 80. If you want to get them a safe car, get them a minivan. That might sound uncool, but just imagine being a teen with a vehicle that big with two rows of fold flat seats
[chat off]
Nay