Diesel Options
- Thread starter jaysdead40
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jaysdead40 said:
Do some research into SVO/RVO conversions. There is a known list of engines that have problems running veg oil. Some need modification to injectors, pumps, etc and some will run it fine stock, and others won't run it hardly at all.
Bio-diesel is not technically the samething as running veg oil. Biodiesel is that soy fuel. Most SVO systems are for running recycled cooking oils.
- Thread starter
- #23
I'm not opposed to the Toyota diesel options I just wanted to see if any other options were available. From what Ive researched Isuzu would be less $ to get and better MPG.
Part of the email I was referring to. I can't find the 2nd part that had all the engine specs. I'm still looking.
As to why not go TOYOTA DIESEL? PARTS! Where are you going to get them in rural America. And how long will you have to wait if you order them?
I've been looking into the Isuzu 4bd1t which is found in the Isuzu NPR box trucks. It is about the right horsepower and weight for a Cruiser. It is an incredible motor, and parts are available almost everywhere. It uses in some cases an Aisan 450 tranny which I'm convinced is close to the A440 in 91s/92s to use with some adaptations.
The Chevy 6.5 is a known swap with a ton of those running around in Australia, check with New Brunswick Diesel or Linquip for information on those swaps.
For Toyota motors basically you could bolt up a 1HZ or a 1HD-t or the newer 1HD-TFE 24 valve. I've discounted using these motors due to poor parts sourcing in the US. As a former owner of a two Toyota diesels I've begun to realize what a hassle it can be to get parts for them in the US without having to wait sometimes weeks. The 1HZ and 1HD-T have some parts availability in Canada due to the mining trucks. The early 1HD-Ts have a history of big end bearing problems. The one Toyota motor that I think would be suitable for an 80 but a little underpowered is the 12HT. It is a cousin of the 2H and shares many of the parts which are more available as the 2H was available in Canda for a few years in the HJ60s. It provides decent power and can be found reasonablely. And it is an easy adaptable motor to the A440f transmission.
If you have a late model 80 series the tranny may also need to be swapped out as they are electronically controlled. To my knowledge no Toyota diesel is compatible with the US spec'd 95-97 80 series A343f tranny. I believe the A442f in the 93/94 controls may be modified. The 91/92 trannys are the easiest to adapt as the A440f is not computer controlled.
Here are some sites that will help you get started in your search for a diesel.
http://www.collegeinternetsolutions.com/cisautoweb/dtlc/
http://www.marks4wd.com/
http://www.brunswickdiesels.com.au/
http://www.linquip.com.au/
http://www.lostguide.com/
http://www.gscruiserparts.com/
Radd Cruisers is another Canadian parts spot. I have seemed to misplace their address.
As to why not go TOYOTA DIESEL? PARTS! Where are you going to get them in rural America. And how long will you have to wait if you order them?
I've been looking into the Isuzu 4bd1t which is found in the Isuzu NPR box trucks. It is about the right horsepower and weight for a Cruiser. It is an incredible motor, and parts are available almost everywhere. It uses in some cases an Aisan 450 tranny which I'm convinced is close to the A440 in 91s/92s to use with some adaptations.
The Chevy 6.5 is a known swap with a ton of those running around in Australia, check with New Brunswick Diesel or Linquip for information on those swaps.
For Toyota motors basically you could bolt up a 1HZ or a 1HD-t or the newer 1HD-TFE 24 valve. I've discounted using these motors due to poor parts sourcing in the US. As a former owner of a two Toyota diesels I've begun to realize what a hassle it can be to get parts for them in the US without having to wait sometimes weeks. The 1HZ and 1HD-T have some parts availability in Canada due to the mining trucks. The early 1HD-Ts have a history of big end bearing problems. The one Toyota motor that I think would be suitable for an 80 but a little underpowered is the 12HT. It is a cousin of the 2H and shares many of the parts which are more available as the 2H was available in Canda for a few years in the HJ60s. It provides decent power and can be found reasonablely. And it is an easy adaptable motor to the A440f transmission.
If you have a late model 80 series the tranny may also need to be swapped out as they are electronically controlled. To my knowledge no Toyota diesel is compatible with the US spec'd 95-97 80 series A343f tranny. I believe the A442f in the 93/94 controls may be modified. The 91/92 trannys are the easiest to adapt as the A440f is not computer controlled.
Here are some sites that will help you get started in your search for a diesel.
http://www.collegeinternetsolutions.com/cisautoweb/dtlc/
http://www.marks4wd.com/
http://www.brunswickdiesels.com.au/
http://www.linquip.com.au/
http://www.lostguide.com/
http://www.gscruiserparts.com/
Radd Cruisers is another Canadian parts spot. I have seemed to misplace their address.
weigellj said:
I sure wouldn't use a gas t/c on a 6.5. In fact, I don't think you can. It needs to be balanced for a 6.2/6.5.
I can attest that a 6.2 uses the same motor mounts and the same bellhousing as a 350. I can also attest that the 4 speed Toyota transmission was not happy with the conversion and kept lunching clutches. i run a TH400 now. Other than the lack of OD, I really like it. I would not use a TH700R4 unless it was set up behind a 6.5. A 4L80E might be a better choice. mate any of those to a Cruiser transfer case.
i am seriously considering waste veggie oil. The school currently pays to have 40 gallons a week disposed of. I could go pick it up by walking down the hall.
An email I received from Linquip in Australia when I inquired a few years ago. Some good information.
Eric,
We would recommend using the bellhousing from the diesel auto and the Marks kit for that engine ,1HZ, as the overall length is shorter than the one used for the 3FE motor and will allow you to remount the Toyota 3 F fan and shroud assembly. We reuse the Toyota Aircon and power steer pumps and fit a new alternator, 110 amp, which also supplies vacuum for the brakes etc. We also manufacture new pulleys to allow for all of these items to run the bigger 13 A belts, Chev uses crappy 11 A belts.
You could fit the complete serpentine belt system as fitted to some of the Chev diesels, but you will have fun fitting the fan and getting the airconditioning crossed over and operational.
The side mount turbo is the easiest to fit although we have also fitted the rear mount with great difficulty. A boooody lift is required and the exhaust exits forwards above the valve cover, not pretty. We have good results with the naturally aspirated engine, and reuse the Toyota air cleaner, we fit a Toyota fuel filter system and supply an aftermarket glow plug system and engine oil cooler.
We recommend altering the stall speed of the convertor to stall at lower rpm and setting up the lock up to come in around 55mph, so that you can get effective use of the 4th transmission gear. Normally this transmission locks up to early.
We have found the transmission quite reliable except in heavy towing applications, just remount the transmission control cable to a standard chev kickdown assembly fro the injector pump.
Sorry for the delay, I hope you have found the information useful.
Best regards,
Lindsay
Eric,
We would recommend using the bellhousing from the diesel auto and the Marks kit for that engine ,1HZ, as the overall length is shorter than the one used for the 3FE motor and will allow you to remount the Toyota 3 F fan and shroud assembly. We reuse the Toyota Aircon and power steer pumps and fit a new alternator, 110 amp, which also supplies vacuum for the brakes etc. We also manufacture new pulleys to allow for all of these items to run the bigger 13 A belts, Chev uses crappy 11 A belts.
You could fit the complete serpentine belt system as fitted to some of the Chev diesels, but you will have fun fitting the fan and getting the airconditioning crossed over and operational.
The side mount turbo is the easiest to fit although we have also fitted the rear mount with great difficulty. A boooody lift is required and the exhaust exits forwards above the valve cover, not pretty. We have good results with the naturally aspirated engine, and reuse the Toyota air cleaner, we fit a Toyota fuel filter system and supply an aftermarket glow plug system and engine oil cooler.
We recommend altering the stall speed of the convertor to stall at lower rpm and setting up the lock up to come in around 55mph, so that you can get effective use of the 4th transmission gear. Normally this transmission locks up to early.
We have found the transmission quite reliable except in heavy towing applications, just remount the transmission control cable to a standard chev kickdown assembly fro the injector pump.
Sorry for the delay, I hope you have found the information useful.
Best regards,
Lindsay
The donar suburban I got has a 700r4 behind the 6.5. The PO said that when he did the engine swap, he had the packs in the tranny changed from 5 to 7 (I think he was talking about he clutch packs). It shifts nice and also the computer lockup stuff was eliminated using a b&m kit.
The guy who rebuilt my 700r4 for my v8, built it with the upgraded packs and eliminated the computer stuff as well with the b&m kit. He seems to think things should be alright with the conversion.
The 4L80E is a good tranny, but you have the computer stuff as well on this one.
Depends on what you want to run, personally I don't want any computer controled components on the tranny.
The guy who rebuilt my 700r4 for my v8, built it with the upgraded packs and eliminated the computer stuff as well with the b&m kit. He seems to think things should be alright with the conversion.
The 4L80E is a good tranny, but you have the computer stuff as well on this one.
Depends on what you want to run, personally I don't want any computer controled components on the tranny.
So Gumby, I've got the A440F mated to the adapter, mated to the 350. I know that you put the 6.2 into your 60, but I'm afraid that I'd be short on power with the 6.2 engine. I think that the 6.5td or a 6.5 with a Banks Turbo unit would be the way to go.
The A440F should work out well with the high diesel torque. The low diesel rpms should work fine and Norm Needham, Cruiser guru extraordinaire has stated that the A440F will take upwards of 650 hp stock, so I'm not really worried about that. I'm just wondering if there are any issues that may pop up that I have overlooked. I should be able to throw the diesel into the same mounts and adapter that I already have with the 350. I can source an electric vacuum pump for the brakes and I can locate the fuel system and tank. What else should I look for?
Since you have already done a similar swap, I'd be interested in hearing the details. I've got a source of WVO to the tune of 200 gallons a week. I've got a half dozen guys interested in forming a biodiesel co-op. I just need to do the swap.
Thanks. WS
The A440F should work out well with the high diesel torque. The low diesel rpms should work fine and Norm Needham, Cruiser guru extraordinaire has stated that the A440F will take upwards of 650 hp stock, so I'm not really worried about that. I'm just wondering if there are any issues that may pop up that I have overlooked. I should be able to throw the diesel into the same mounts and adapter that I already have with the 350. I can source an electric vacuum pump for the brakes and I can locate the fuel system and tank. What else should I look for?
Since you have already done a similar swap, I'd be interested in hearing the details. I've got a source of WVO to the tune of 200 gallons a week. I've got a half dozen guys interested in forming a biodiesel co-op. I just need to do the swap.
Thanks. WS
Call Jeremiah Proffitt at Proffitt's Cruisers, he's got an FJ80 lined up to do a Cummins 4BT swap as soon as he finished with my FJ62's 4BT swap. Turbo intercooled, a bit noisy, SUPER torquey, yields about 20-25 MPG in one of these big wagons.
I'll be the first one to say that I would MUCH rather have had a factory Toyota diesel, but there were three arguments that sold me on the Cummins:
1. Cost. I bought the engine, intercooler, adapter and various ancillaries for about 1/3 of what I would have paid for a factory 1HZ/1HDT.
2. Parts availability. My FJ62 is non-US, and sourcing parts has been a major PITA a couple of times. For a daily driver, this is the kiss of death. YES, you can get anything you need for a 1HZ/1HDT through Toyota Canada, SOR, Sidney City Toyota, ENS, CDan and the loose network of connected "dieselheads", but the reality is, it's going to be expensive and you will sometimes have to wait, PERIOD.
3. Ease of conversion. This one's a toss-up, but since I wasn't doing it myself but farming out the labor, it was easy to go to Proffitt's, where they've already done a good number of these 4BT conversions. I looked briefly at what it would have cost me to do the 1HZ/1HDT, and there wasn't a huge savings. Besides, most US-based Cruiser shops don't have much experience with these engines, most have never even seen one.
I'll be the first one to say that I would MUCH rather have had a factory Toyota diesel, but there were three arguments that sold me on the Cummins:
1. Cost. I bought the engine, intercooler, adapter and various ancillaries for about 1/3 of what I would have paid for a factory 1HZ/1HDT.
2. Parts availability. My FJ62 is non-US, and sourcing parts has been a major PITA a couple of times. For a daily driver, this is the kiss of death. YES, you can get anything you need for a 1HZ/1HDT through Toyota Canada, SOR, Sidney City Toyota, ENS, CDan and the loose network of connected "dieselheads", but the reality is, it's going to be expensive and you will sometimes have to wait, PERIOD.
3. Ease of conversion. This one's a toss-up, but since I wasn't doing it myself but farming out the labor, it was easy to go to Proffitt's, where they've already done a good number of these 4BT conversions. I looked briefly at what it would have cost me to do the 1HZ/1HDT, and there wasn't a huge savings. Besides, most US-based Cruiser shops don't have much experience with these engines, most have never even seen one.
Man having one of these in my 80 would be my ultimate dream truck 
. Cummins turbo 325 horse with 610 ft lb of torque. Gas mileage is probably number 5 or 6 reason to swap into a diesel for me. I would like to find out answes on some very basic questions such as can I use my stock tranny with it or how hard it is to mate the two, gas tank mountins..etc. and etc. But you know what will piss me off? I do this swap and then toyota decides to build a diesel truck for US 
. Cummins turbo 325 horse with 610 ft lb of torque. Gas mileage is probably number 5 or 6 reason to swap into a diesel for me. I would like to find out answes on some very basic questions such as can I use my stock tranny with it or how hard it is to mate the two, gas tank mountins..etc. and etc. But you know what will piss me off? I do this swap and then toyota decides to build a diesel truck for US
Do it then! I would buy a Toyota diesel truck 
The problem for me with the swap has been economics. I can't economically swap a diesel in because they are expensive to purchase and I'd most likely need some help rebuilding it and with some other stuff getting it ready. All of this to get better mileage that will probably never pay for itself for the time and trouble. Diesel has run about .20 higher than gas where I live for a long time. Now it is running .38-.45 higher. Getting 20 mpg instead of 15 mpg isn't that much of a increase in mileage. Then when you add the increase in the price of fuel it takes a long time to make it worthwhile. The idea of possiblely getting more power is attractive but if I go for more power then the mileage increase goes down. I need a tragedy with my 1FZ to put me over the edge. And I don't see that happening as it is happily chugging along at 207k. I'm guessing it will do this for another 85-100k.
The problem for me with the swap has been economics. I can't economically swap a diesel in because they are expensive to purchase and I'd most likely need some help rebuilding it and with some other stuff getting it ready. All of this to get better mileage that will probably never pay for itself for the time and trouble. Diesel has run about .20 higher than gas where I live for a long time. Now it is running .38-.45 higher. Getting 20 mpg instead of 15 mpg isn't that much of a increase in mileage. Then when you add the increase in the price of fuel it takes a long time to make it worthwhile. The idea of possiblely getting more power is attractive but if I go for more power then the mileage increase goes down. I need a tragedy with my 1FZ to put me over the edge. And I don't see that happening as it is happily chugging along at 207k. I'm guessing it will do this for another 85-100k.
- Thread starter
- #34
Exiled; On the 80 conversion that Proffits is getting ready do you know which tranny they plan to use. If a Cummins can mate to the 440 maybe the Isuzu can also since alot of the diesels share a common pattern.
Eric; Above average info as always, thanks. Im still hoping to run boulder basin this fall, if I get it lined up I'll PM ya.
Jay
Eric; Above average info as always, thanks. Im still hoping to run boulder basin this fall, if I get it lined up I'll PM ya.
Jay
Try this one
http://cruisers.shoumatoffmedia.com/comparecummins.html
Also here is an engine for a conversion.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...d=1,1&item=7997129490&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT
jaysdead40 said:
http://cruisers.shoumatoffmedia.com/comparecummins.html
Also here is an engine for a conversion.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...d=1,1&item=7997129490&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #36
Animal, you nailed it. That is the site I was looking for.
Thank you, Jay
Thank you, Jay
I'm curious to know if any of you own a diesel? I have a 05 Silverado DMAX and only get 18MPG. Don't get me wrong, I love the diesel engine, but I think some people blow the diesel MPG out of proportion and think that every vehicle that has a diesel engine get 30-40 MPG. Obviously the weight of the vehicle plays a part in the milieage, and considering that the 80 series is all wheel drive, I wonder what a realistic MPG would be? Sounds very nice though!