Cummins swap ideas........ (1 Viewer)

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bigfj62

bigfj62

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Feb 16, 2010
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So I have been searching for a good Cummins to fit into my 80. I have been tossing back and forth the idea of the stock A442 Auto or the NV4500 to Split case. I found a 93 Cummins/nv4500/NP205 for a good price. Instead of putting Marks gears in a Split case couldn't you just double an np205 to a 203 or 205. I know this is not Toyota anymore but for the money of low range gears I think this would be a good way to get some good crawl ratio results for the money.

I like the idea of the manual more and more. I am not too sure about the Cummins to the stock auto. Not that it won't hold up but making it shift correctly for the diesel seems to be a struggle for some. Plus you could make the 80 a true part time truck better fuel economy and highway performance. Plus shifting through the gears on a diesel is just plain awesome. Np205 seems to be a little more horizontal in design then the stock similar to an orion or atlas unlike the stock case which is quite round. Tucking it between the frame rails may not be that hard.

Problems I for see. Driveline yokes and alignment. Could a custom drive shaft be built?? The GM and Dodge np205 dump out the left side. Not sure how well it will fit with the cummins. I know some of you guys said the front driveshaft has been awfully close to the bell housing. Cross members would be custom. Will this setup be getting too long? I assume not since the nv4500 is shorter then the A442. What are your guys thoughts?
 
Lots of good questions actually.
I have a 4BT not a 6 by the way.
I love my NV4500 / split case w/ Marks combo. Much better than the 700R4 that was in it before. Absolutely awful. I think the stock trans would probably be ok with a stand alone computer. I would definitely go with a 93 or 94 for this since the trans controller is stand alone and its a bit stronger than the previous and later ones.
When you ditch the stock TC you lose full time FWD and might as well install locking hubs. When you do that you lose ABS. The ABS sensor is in the hub and uses splines that go away with the locking hub conversion.
I don't know about the 205 / 203 stuff but you definitely need to dump out on the passenger side unless you are going to put different axles in. I think there was only like 1 or 2 years where there was a suburban with a NV4500 and right hand drop TC. I think maybe a 90 suburban. You would need to get a chevy back plate for the engine if you went that direction.
I had custom length drivelines made.
Its not that difficult of a project but there are a ton of little things that you will have to address and it takes forever. I love mine but would never recommend that someone do this type of swap unless you are doing the work yourself and are prepared to fix stuff yourself. You will truly have a frankentruck but you will love it.
 
waterweber said:
Lots of good questions actually.
I have a 4BT not a 6 by the way.
I love my NV4500 / split case w/ Marks combo. Much better than the 700R4 that was in it before. Absolutely awful. I think the stock trans would probably be ok with a stand alone computer. I would definitely go with a 93 or 94 for this since the trans controller is stand alone and its a bit stronger than the previous and later ones.
When you ditch the stock TC you lose full time FWD and might as well install locking hubs. When you do that you lose ABS. The ABS sensor is in the hub and uses splines that go away with the locking hub conversion.
I don't know about the 205 / 203 stuff but you definitely need to dump out on the passenger side unless you are going to put different axles in. I think there was only like 1 or 2 years where there was a suburban with a NV4500 and right hand drop TC. I think maybe a 90 suburban. You would need to get a chevy back plate for the engine if you went that direction.
I had custom length drivelines made.
Its not that difficult of a project but there are a ton of little things that you will have to address and it takes forever. I love mine but would never recommend that someone do this type of swap unless you are doing the work yourself and are prepared to fix stuff yourself. You will truly have a frankentruck but you will love it.
Click to expand...

I have a split case lying around, but $1800 for gears???? Its like they are made out of gold.
I don't care about ABS. I currently have the fuse out because my sensors are jacked.
The NV4500 comes behind a Dodge stock and AA makes an adapter to the Split case. I just want the better low gear ratio without spending a fortune. The NP205 seems like a pretty bullet proof case with lots of gear and dual case options.

A couple questions about your swap? What kind of money do you have into it? Could you take some pictures of the setup and undercarriage. What kind of clutch pedal did you use? What is it like on the highway?? Thanks in advance.
 
Yeah the gears are ridiculously expensive. My buddy had a set floating around that he made me a good deal on.
I think he might have an old Marlin Toybox floating around too. I was going to install that but it ended up being too long.
Run the stock gears. Get an older 4500 that has the really low granny gear and you should be good for pretty much anything except serious rock crawling. FYI, the marks gears are LOUD.
If you want the pass drop TC you could either get a Chevy 4500 with that TC on it already in which case you would need to chevy back-plate for the Cummins. Otherwise you could install the pass drop TC onto the dodge mount 4500. Starter stuff is different on the dodge vs the chevy back.
I think the 205 cases would be fine and i am sure you can figure out how to make them work. Might need to play with the linkages due to the length with double cases.
I probably have around 10k in the swap i'm guessing. That includes the lift though and lots of little parts and stuff. I would have saved myself some cash if I has started with the manual in the first place.
I will take some pics when I get a chance. Let me know if you want specifics.
I used a stock 80 series clutch pedal assembly that I got from Akela on here. They are a pain in the ass to get and take forever but it bolted right in. I needed to install a return spring on the fork to make it work right though.
Cruises down the highway at 70 no problem. Pretty much consistently get 20mpgs and thats with a 4" lift and 37s. Put it in 4 low, 1st gear, lock the diffs and there is no stopping the thing.
 
I have talked to Akella he said he would have a batch of clutch pedals soon. Did you use Dustin's kit for wiring and accessory's and such.
 
I used his AC / Alternator bracket. Its really nice. He was pretty much zero help with it though. He told me I could run the serpentine belt in a way that resulted in the tensioner being busted so don't look for guidance from him.
The wiring is not that difficult as long as you have a EWD and some time. I wouldn't pay to have it done for me. Its nice to know how its hooked up too because if something fries not many people are going to be able to help you.
 
Marks gears are out of stock until March but take in account that $1,800 is only $1,350 US. That is the best exchange rate I have seen. I was going to buy gears back in June and it came out to $1,550.
Also Mark's sell ABS conversion for 2WDs as well if that is something you don't want to loose.
 
If you run an NP205 you will run into gas tank clearance issues. NP205 has right drop for the front axle but the NP241 does not, FYI.

There are yota flange adapters for the 205. 32 spline np205 to yota flange is what you're looking for. Not a huge deal.

Be careful that the 93 isn't a getrag because 93s came with getrag/np205 not the NV4500(with a np241) so either it's been swapped or they've got the wrong trans.

Get the NV4500 no matter what you do. Then either address fitting a 205 (magnum box is the way to go over the doubler) or do a split case.
 
waterweber said:
<snip>.....
When you ditch the stock TC you lose full time FWD and might as well install locking hubs. When you do that you lose ABS. The ABS sensor is in the hub and uses splines that go away with the locking hub conversion....<snip>,,,,,.
Click to expand...

The abs sensors are on the birfs, I have locking hubs and still have working abs (93). won't work if front axle is not turning though.
 
maxamillion2345 said:
If you run an NP205 you will run into gas tank clearance issues. NP205 has right drop for the front axle but the NP241 does not, FYI.

There are yota flange adapters for the 205. 32 spline np205 to yota flange is what you're looking for. Not a huge deal.

Be careful that the 93 isn't a getrag because 93s came with getrag/np205 not the NV4500(with a np241) so either it's been swapped or they've got the wrong trans.

Get the NV4500 no matter what you do. Then either address fitting a 205 (magnum box is the way to go over the doubler) or do a split case.
Click to expand...

Exactly what year Dodges came with the NV4500? This guy says its a NV4500 in his ad. But he also says 205 case. I suppose you can't link a getrag to a split case. What are the downfalls of the getrag? I was hoping to eliminate buying a motor to trans adapter buying a cummins with a NV4500 already attached.
 
waterweber said:
Truck

Truck

Shafts

Shafts

Crossmember

Crossmember

XMember and TC

XMember and TC

DS clearance

DS clearance

Marine application oil pan

Marine application oil pan

Marine oil pan

Marine oil pan

4BT

4BT

Click to expand...


Thanks for the pictures. That crossmember is really tucked up nice. Is the motor tilted one way or another?? Are you using a speed sensor off of the 80? Don't the 60s have a mechanical speedometer cable? Ironman Lift...what size? I have a J-spring 1 inch spacer up front. Did you do a body lift??
 
Brimley said:
The abs sensors are on the birfs, I have locking hubs and still have working abs (93). won't work if front axle is not turning though.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct. Forgot why it didn't work, just knew it didn't. :)
 
Ok, here we go:
I worked pretty hard to get the crossmember tucked up there. It will be getting some skid plates in the future.
Engine is tilted to the drivers side I believe. Cummins says to tilt the 4BT 15% if I recall correctly. It allows the trans to mount up straight too.
Yes the speed sensor from the 80 works fine. Plug and play. The sensor just screws into the port on the split case.
Its a hybrid list, Slee 4" springs and castor correction, ironman foam cell shocks. I need to install some bump stop extenders. Haven't gotten around to it yet.
No body lift. The turbo output to the exhaust is tight. I had a custom exhaust made and was able to run it over the frame. If you don't specifically tell the exhaust guy you want the pipe to go over the frame they sometimes run it under because its easier.
 
Just looked at the picture. Engine is tilted toward the passenger side.
 
Shiftier comes up right under where the dash comes down to the trans tunnel. I had to put a little extender bar on it to move the stick back far enough to shift.
I had to cut the tunnel and rework it a bit to get the TC case to fit and the shifter to work right.
4BT is loud and sounds like a tractor. I put a ton of sound deadening on the floor and firewall and that helps a lot. It is really not bad at all now especially at highway speeds. The loudest thing while driving are the Marks gears in the TC. I think that will go down considerable when I get the center console built and installed.
 
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