cranky old safe (1 Viewer)

[Koffer]

Part of the stuff I've picked up at my great grandfathers shop is an old safe that hasn't been opened in some time .
It has no name or markings on it other the the dial #s
I got 2 sets of combos for it (that had 2 safes at one time ) but cant get it opened.
I tried taping with a hammer while trying the combos , warming the door around the wheel thinking the grease has gotten hard .
I'm not looking at damaging it as there's no time limit a time thing so farting with it over time is not a problem.

Ideas on what else to try ?

After messing with it for awhile I moved on pulling the drill press apart and cleaning all the gunk/sawdust/hard grease out. Re-greased it .I then pulled the old motor apart and also cleaned and re-greased it as it sounded as the bearings were bad but it was just the grease in the ball bearings had turned into a hard wax like crud .
works like a dream
I have a feeling the lock mech in the safe has the same issue

Thanks gents

 

[TomH]

A long time ago I worked in a drugstore and there were a couple of old safes. Both of them opened the same way - a few turns one direction (clockwise I think) to the first number, two turns the other direction to the second number, one turn back to the third number, then back until the dial stops turning. I think that's how they worked - it's been a long time.

 

[ar2stp48]

safe

Any chance of picture of safe? Some can be identified by appearance--shape of corners, shape of handle and/or hinges, caps on hinges, etc. Also a number of companies used Yale or S/G locks and built their own cabinets. Do the combinations you have include direction and count of turns? Often the count causes the most difficulty on old safes. You might try reversing the directions; right first rather than left. Have seen a few times where owner wrote combination in reverse order; last number more likely to be in span 0 to 15

Safes are another hobby.

 

[Koffer]

Any chance of picture of safe? Some can be identified by appearance--shape of corners, shape of handle and/or hinges, caps on hinges, etc. Also a number of companies used Yale or S/G locks and built their own cabinets. Do the combinations you have include direction and count of turns? Often the count causes the most difficulty on old safes. You might try reversing the directions; right first rather than left. Have seen a few times where owner wrote combination in reverse order; last number more likely to be in span 0 to 15

Safes are another hobby.

I snap a pic of it and post it , one of the combos I got which was suppose to be for it ends in 0 but it dosn't have a 0 just a 100

 

[e9999]

unlikely but gotta ask:
there isn't a key slot somewhere, is there? perhaps hidden under some decoration?

yes, hardened grease can be a problem is the disks are stuck or stiff. Not much to do, probably, except move it around a lot and hope for the best. I just fixed one that had not been used in 20 years and the grease and disks were a solid mass. The dial would not even spin.

You may also want to try to place the dial slightly off. Some times the exact number makes the latch just not drop right, but half a number to the side and it goes.

Are you positive the numbers are actually correct? cuz yes, some people would scramble or do some simple deception like adding or subtracting 1 to all etc. Obviously it's not a good idea to have them be kept on a piece of paper out there. (Unless you keep the piece of paper in the safe of course... )

Safes are interesting. People are often in awe of the mechanisms and then when you open them up you realize how crude some of those things are inside. And are amazed they even work as reliably as they usually do. Btw, it's pretty easy to change the combo on many dial locks.

 

[ar2stp48]

A couple of pictures will really help; full front view, and close up of dial, The 100 on your safe is same as 0 on others. If the grease has the parts stuck, it will cause your numbers to be off as much as seven. Also depends on the lock used as some do not have parts that are affected as badly. Yale and Mosler are easier troubled that some of Herring Hall Marvin. I have only had one instance of a single number sticking.


Yes old safe are interesting. And a bit disturbing at times. The last one I had to open after an attempted break-in had an old tear gas canister attached to inside of door---I was not told of this until I had been trying to open it for almost a half hour

 

[Koffer]

here's the "Ole Cranky"s mug

 

[ar2stp48]

Good pictures; thanks. First guess is safe is a Diebold; the round corners of door is hint. There is writing in center of dial--may reference company, Eagle or S/G lock. You have the numbers to know; they used both three and four number combinations. Try your combination starting to right for first number. On the turn count, if it says "three times to 27..."; count the third time 27 comes to index mark.

A rubber mallet is sometimes useful after dialing the correct combination if one of the wheels is very slightly off centered and not allowing drop in. Doesn't work on individual numbers dialed. Saw your hammer in picture. Does dial turn freely? Can you hear any sounds as your turn dial?

Good luck; I will check another book for information ( had HPC handy). Send me a pm for any questions

 

[Koffer]

Looking at the knob in the pixs , there seems to letters on it which I never saw before , I'll see if I read them and post it

I blew the pix up in photoshop to get a better look and it
Says DIEBOLD SAFE & LOCK CO CANTON OH
It also has a couple of words in the middle but I cant read but some looks like PATENT and under that I can see a MA then its unreadable then as the paint is a little hard to see thru .
The dial does turn freely and as you turn it you can feel it pick up wheels as it goes around and hear it clicking too
Thanks

 

[ar2stp48]

Sounds good; does not sound like you have a problem with dried oil/grease. The clicking is one wheel picking up the next. My guess is in the combination given to you. Try the numbers as given; reverse the order (if last is 0, ignore it when you reverse order); and try starting right, the original and reversed numbers starting left.

 

[ducktapeguy]

How many numbers in the combination and are you following these directions?

http://www.newenglandsafe.com/supportdialing.html

If that doesn't work try +/-2 on each of the numbers, the dials might have shifted over the years.

Also, if the combination is 4 numbers, and the last one is 0, it might not be part of the combination. Usually those locks have a "Safe Zone" that the last number can't be in that range due to the mechanics of the dials.

 

[ojaij40]

unlikely but gotta ask:
there isn't a key slot somewhere, is there? perhaps hidden under some decoration?

yes, hardened grease can be a problem is the disks are stuck or stiff. Not much to do, probably, except move it around a lot and hope for the best. I just fixed one that had not been used in 20 years and the grease and disks were a solid mass. The dial would not even spin.

You may also want to try to place the dial slightly off. Some times the exact number makes the latch just not drop right, but half a number to the side and it goes.

Are you positive the numbers are actually correct? cuz yes, some people would scramble or do some simple deception like adding or subtracting 1 to all etc. Obviously it's not a good idea to have them be kept on a piece of paper out there. (Unless you keep the piece of paper in the safe of course... )

Safes are interesting. People are often in awe of the mechanisms and then when you open them up you realize how crude some of those things are inside. And are amazed they even work as reliably as they usually do. Btw, it's pretty easy to change the combo on many dial locks.

I was going to comment on the key slot tip, but I will wait until you've posted at least 20 more times...

 

[t-o]

Great safe! Love old things like that. Did you get it open yet?

I have used an old safe like this before with a similar diebold dial.

If combo is 20-60-40 then.....
Several turns (4-5?) counterclockwise stopping on 20.
Turn clockwise, pass 60 twice then stop on 60.
Turn counterclockwise, pass 40 once then stop on 40.
Turn clockwise until dial stops.
Open lock

Good luck, Let us know!

 

[SoylentGreen]

This is really interesting! Good luck. I'm no safe expert but I remember a fascinating video I saw a few months ago. Look for "Richard Feynman's way of safe cracking." It's on wimp.com as one source. If you are not sure the combos you have are correct, the Feynman method might help you discover what it actually is.

 

[se2000]

Is it a fire safe? If so you can drill through the Asbestos from the back and maybe unscrew the backing plate and opening it by watching the tumbler

 

[ar2stp48]

Watching for an update that safe was opened.

From the comment: "...drill ... and maybe unscrew the backing plate and opening it by watching the tumbler..."
What if there is an inner door? Will not be able to reach lock. And not all locks are visible without removing the door backing plate. Not trying to rain on anyone's idea, but dont want to see undue damage to safe to require repair

 

[se2000]

I have an old fire safe that I got with 2 small holes drilled, backing plate removed and then opened by watching tumblers.
Wish it didn't have the holes but better holes in back than front if the tumblers are messed up with. If tech can help open working tumblers that is the way to go. If not, My idea allows the safe to be repaired and the face is still good. Way easier to go through the back. Seen some damaged beyond use by going through the front.
I now have a functional safe and nobody notices the plugged holes. I also fixed it so it could not be done again.
Just throwing out another option.

 

[Koffer]

I havent had much time to mess with it as my dad and uncle have been pushing to get the place cleaned up that it came from .
I sat there and sent to the scrap yard probably $10,000 worth of brand new iron pipe fittings and plumbing parts that no one was interested in . Also bent up boxes of brand new aluminum siding . Sort of sad to see .
I loaded 2 tons of nos Stanley hinges still in the boxes (strap , tee ) that I couldnt see going for scrap plus old hand tools and other stuff . I have my Ford van and chevy box truck fulled stuff I need to go thru and see what I can sell . I found a coal shovel from the Pennsylvania Rail Road my great grandfather used when he was a fireman on a stream engine over 100 years ago.

 

[e9999]

I have been wondering about leaving the covers off the locks inside.

What I have done is to make a schematic with dimensions of the locking system in case one of the safes has to be drilled to open (god forbid that would happen on my bank-level safe.... ).

 

[se2000]

Hope none of that new siding was 8" white woodgrain. I've been looking for some as I've been changing windows and doors.