Cost of Ownership comparison model

[Banzai Run]

Hi All,
Pretty new to the forum and the idea of buying a used 100 series. I have always bought new cars, and never really considered used. Well the time has come for me to buy another car, but the new cars I am seeing out there right now do not have me excited at all, and frankly the last few new cars I have owned were not a good value in my opinion - they had issues and headaches and really did not perform. So now I am just looking for a decent reliable daily driver, and I have always thought Land Cruisers were cool, but could not afford new. I am considering buying a 100 series and wanted to analyze the cost implications of such a decision. I attempted to build a model and compare the cost of ownership of a new ~$45K car/suv to a ~150K mile 100 series for ~$15K.

See my model below - it assumes 8 years of ownership (how long I have typically kept my cars).
Anyone see anything that looks way off?

Thanks,
Joe

Cost of Ownersip Model	# of Years	8		Notes
Type	100 Series	X
Year	1998-2007	2020
Mileage	150,000	-
MPG	13	20
Miles per year	7,500	9,000		Newer car would incur more out of state trips
Cost per gallon	$ 3.00	$ 3.00
Total Fuel Cost	$ 13,846	$ 10,800
Total Insurance	$ 6,144	$ 7,680
Total Reg costs	$ 1,155	$ 3,413		AZ based on vehicle value
Purchase/w reg and fees	$ 15,250	$ 49,050
Upgrades	$ 5,000	$ 500		Optional - assumes low-level build out for 100
Maint Yr 1	$ 3,000	$ 150		100 = Baseline / Car X= Warranty
Maint Yr 2	$ 1,000	$ 150		Car X= Warranty
Maint Yr 3	$ 2,000	$ 150		Car X= Warranty
Maint Yr 4	$ 1,000	$ 150		Car X= Warranty
Maint Yr 5	$ 2,000	$ 600
Maint Yr 6	$ 1,000	$ 400
Maint Yr 7	$ 2,000	$ 600
Maint Yr 8	$ 1,000	$ 400
Year 8 total mileage	210,000	72,000
Year 8 Resale	$ (12,000)	$ (12,000)
Total cost of ownership	$ 42,395	$ 62,043
Cost Per Year	$ 5,299	$ 7,755

 

[neckbone]

Personally, I think you're way overstating the cost of maintainance on the 100. No way in 8 years that maintainance costs you $13k. Also, for the upgrades, you can't really compare building out the 100 to the tune of 5 grand without doing the same for the new vehicle. I bet that if you take a more realistic approach of $5-6k over the 8 years in maintainance and take make the $5k upgrades equal per car, you'll drop that cost per year down a grand or two.

 

[Banzai Run]

Personally, I think you're way overstating the cost of maintainance on the 100. No way in 8 years that maintainance costs you $13k. Also, for the upgrades, you can't really compare building out the 100 to the tune of 5 grand without doing the same for the new vehicle. I bet that if you take a more realistic approach of $5-6k over the 8 years in maintainance and take make the $5k upgrades equal per car, you'll drop that cost per year down a grand or two.

I was hoping my maintenance assumptions were too high on the 100 - but I also did that somewhat intentionally. I am mechanically inclined, I have worked on dirtbikes and electronics quite a bit but not so much cars - so I was assuming any bigger issues that arise could likely be at shop rates.

 

[suprarx7nut]

I think you're on track. If you wrench yourself, those costs are a little high based on my experience.

Including upgrades, purchase price and all maintenance/repairs, I'm around $25k spent on my 99 over 7 years. I'm selling it now for $13k. Effective cost of ownership (excluding gas and insurance) of around ~$2k/year.

New cars with typical depreciation are an awful financial investment, IMO - especially when compared to a "built for life" vehicle like a 100 series. Even factoring in nearly all potential high dollar repairs (outside of rust), a 100 should be far cheaper than a new SUV. Not to mention, in 8 years the 100 is probably going to drive better than the cut-rate $45k 2020 Model Year SUV you'd buy new today. Cheaper isn't always better, but strictly from a financial perspective buying new is terrible.

With many new cars the initial quality (potential faults on one of the million systems) is low enough that you might actually spend more time in a shop with a new car compared to a 100.


Anyways, you may also want to compare a 200. You'd have a higher investment and more depreciation, but some offsetting maintenance costs and a newer vehicle overall.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

Personally, I think you're way overstating the cost of maintainance on the 100. No way in 8 years that maintainance costs you $13k.

I disagree, particularly if Banzai is not DIY-ing everything and is paying labor charges. Hell, just refreshing the front end (rack, CVs, control arms, bushings, shocks, etc), which appears to often be needed between the 150-200k mile range, can cost $3-4K in OEM parts. Throw in a $2-3k ABS booster assembly that might fail at the most inopportune time, and you’re already about halfway to the $13k without factoring in potential labor charges.

 

[Banzai Run]

I disagree, particularly if Banzai is not DIY-ing everything and is paying labor charges. Hell, just refreshing the front end (rack, CVs, control arms, bushings, shocks, etc), which appears to often be needed between the 150-200k mile range, can cost $3-4K in OEM parts. Throw in a $2-3k ABS booster assembly that might fail at the most inopportune time, and you’re already about halfway to the $13k without factoring in potential labor charges.

Appreciate the honest opinion - this was my reason for posting. Keep them coming!

There are other factors in this decision obviously, intangibles such as enjoying the vehicle you have, being able to off-road and take advantage of terrain, etc. But the reality is that there is the cost/downtime component to be considered. I want to be realistic rather than going into this with rose colored glasses.

It's interesting because I see a number of for sale posts from folks that have only owned their 100's for a short period. Most have a story about a life-change etc. driving the sale, and maybe some are just being flipped. But I have to imagine a portion of these are folks who thought they could take this on and found out quickly they were in over their heads.

 

[Banzai Run]

New cars with typical depreciation are an awful financial investment, IMO - especially when compared to a "built for life" vehicle like a 100 series. Even factoring in nearly all potential high dollar repairs (outside of rust), a 100 should be far cheaper than a new SUV. Not to mention, in 8 years the 100 is probably going to drive better than the cut-rate $45k 2020 Model Year SUV you'd buy new today. Cheaper isn't always better, but strictly from a financial perspective buying new is terrible.

totally agree with this - new cars are not worth it, especially when I don't really like any of the new cars in my price range. Only one I am close to considering is a Tacoma but I cannot seem to come to grips with paying $40K+ for a mid size pickup.

 

[KillerBox]

In 2017, I bought 11k for a 2001 LX with 107,000 miles. This is my personal notes for all the service that I have done on it. I have spent appx. 5k in maintenance items on top of the 11k that I purchased it for but, in return I have a SUV that drives, rides and is just as reliable as most new SUVs.

If you will look, I started doing a lot of the items myself when the Covid-19 scare started because I had more free time. Btw, I plan on keeping my LX forever.

1. Eastern Shore Toyota repacked front bearings & brakes 03/17/2017 – 107,042 Miles.

2. Eastern Shore Toyota replaced water pump, timing belt and drive belts - 03/17/2017 – 107,042 Miles.

3. Eastern Shore Toyota – Transmission Flush, Rear Differential Flush, Fuel Injector Service 03/17/2017 – 107,042 Miles.

4. Hood Struts, tailgate struts, 3 windshield wipers replaced by me – 04/2017

5. Mass air flow sensor changed by Eastern Shore Toyota because of stalling when leaving stop signs. 110,864 - 02/13/2018

6. Fuel filter by engine changed by Eastern Shore Toyota @ 115,000 miles.

7. Cabin filter replaced, cleaned & silicone by me at 115,000.

8. Idler Pulley changed by TNT Car Stereo (part came from Springhill Toyota) for serpentine belt changed at appx 110,000 miles.

9. Iridium spark plugs changed by Eastern Shore Toyota at 115,000.

10. Alternator changed by TNT Car Stereo - aftermarket 250a - Alt S fuse is the problem with over voltage

11. Rear 3rd Brake Light replaced by me – 120,000 miles

12. 1 can of Freon by me at 120,000 miles.

13. LED back up lights & taillights in the tailgate by me @ 120,000.

14. Driveshaft greased by me @ 122,000 miles – 02/2020

15. Heater Hose Ts (pair of them) changed by me @ 122,000 miles – 02/2020

16. Fuel Pump, screen and tank rubber gasket in fuel tank changed by me @ 122,000 miles – 02/2020

17. Driver’s side upstream O2 sensor changed by me @ 122,000 miles – 02/2020

18. Suspension AHC - all 4 Globes & AHC oil changed by me - 02/15/2020 - 122,000 miles

19. Driver’s side caliper locked up. Replaced by me both rear calipers, both rear caliper brackets and driver’s side rear rotor. Put new brake pads on both sides. Drained 2 quart of brake fluid and replaced with new DOT 3. – 03/01/2020 - 122,000 miles

20. ½ quart of Power Steering fluid (Dextron 3 automatic transmission fluid) removed and replaced for maintenance - by me – 03/02/2020 – 122,500 miles

21. Accelerator pedal was adjusted by me – Had about 1” slack and now has about 1/4” – 03/15/2020

22. A Precision Auto Glass – Leo in Daphne – 251-621-1500 – Installed new Toyota windshield molding and Toyota Rivets. The LX is quieter than when Bay City Glass install the windshield but, still not as quiet when it had the original windshield. – 03/23/2020 – 122,500 miles $95.00 for install & about $300.00 for the new moldings & etc.

23. Eight new Denso Spark Plug Coils done by me – All 8 Spark Plugs torque to 180 in lbs. (15 ft. lbs.) – Small amount of dielectric grease on coil boots, very small amount of blue lock tight on coil bolts, coil bolts torque to approximately 200 in lbs. (17 ft. lbs.) – 04/11/2020 – 123,000 miles. The vibration in the 4 wheel drive lever is about 50% of what it was.

24. Cleaned front seatbelts to help the driver’s seatbelt roll up easier. 06/15/2020 – 124,000 miles.

25. Changed front differential, rear differential and transfer case fluid. Front Differential needed changing but, wasn’t too bad. Transfer Case & Rear Differential didn’t need changing but, was still changed. 75w90 Full Synthetic Mobile 1 & new magnetic plugs installed. Little never seize used & 340 Lbs. Torque on Transfer & 440 lbs. on front & rear diffs. 06/20/2020 - 124,000 miles.

26. Changed Air Filter – 06/20/2020 – 124,000 miles.

27. Changed the main EFI relay (under the hood) with a Toyota (Denso) relay. The LX 470 had nothing wrong with it but, I had read that these eventually fail. The old relay is stored in the glove box. 06/29/2020 – 124,000 miles.

28. Passenger’s side upstream O2 sensor changed by me @ 124,500 miles – 07/11/2020 – Nothing wrong with the old one but, did it for preventive maintenance. The old 02 sensor is with the old spark plug coil packs in a box in front of SUV.

29. Discovered passenger side rear brake caliper leaking. Tighten hose and everything seems good now. Replaced about a pint of brake fluid because the brake light was showing low fluid level. 124,500 miles on 07/11/2020

30. Drilled hole for wireless phone charger. Also oiled the front seat tracks and back of the front seats. Also oiled the rear gate rubber surrounds & the wing windows. 124,500 miles on 07/11/2020

31. Added BK 44K fuel treatment to the gas tank. Nothing wrong just for preventive maintenance. 124,500 miles on 07/11/2020

32. Cleaned the AC water outlet. Nothing wrong but, I was already there to change out the passenger side O2 sensor. 124,500 miles on 07/11/2020

33. New Ignition Rod installed. Nothing wrong, just for preventive maintenance. The old ignition rod is in the box where the old Spark Plug coils & old upstream O2 sensor are. 124,500 miles on 07/18/2020

34. New plastic dash above & below the Speedo installed. The old one was cracked. I also installed felt pads & Tessa tape on the AC air ducts & etc. It is quieter but, still with a slight plastic sound in the dash near speedometer. 124,500 miles on 07/18/2020

35. Installed an AC drain hose because from the factory the Lexus LX 470 AC just stubs out of the firewall. Over time this could rust components near the front axle. So I installed a drain hose and a 90 degree adapter. 100/120-Series AC Drain Extension Kit - ADEK2 - www.cruiser-garage.com - 124,500 miles on 07/25/2020

36. Tighten the passenger side rear “wing” window with lock tight. Sound proofed the rear passenger side under the wing window. Sound proofed the dash & center console by the gear shifter. Used strips of felt at the dash corners where the windshield meets. 124,700 miles on 08/16/2020

 

[JunkCrzr89]

It's interesting because I see a number of for sale posts from folks that have only owned their 100's for a short period. Most have a story about a life-change etc. driving the sale, and maybe some are just being flipped. But I have to imagine a portion of these are folks who thought they could take this on and found out quickly they were in over their heads.

I agree that’s probably a driving factor for some of those. The 100s seem to be gaining popularity and many of the 4Runner-Tacoma crowd who have drooled over Cruisers for years are making the transition. But they’re used to paying $180 for an OEM CV axle, not the $400 that it costs for an OEM Cruiser CV axle, and that translates to every part on a Cruiser. The costs of maintenance are double that of other Toyota 4x4s because the parts are double the cost, and some folks simply aren’t prepared for that reality. However, there appears to be plenty of flippers out there trying to make a few extra grand. Most of that seems to be mitigated in the MUD Classifieds though.

I can just tell you from my experience that I bought a 100 with 200k miles and immediately dumped $8k in parts (no labor) into it within the first year mostly just to baseline it.

 

[Beau]

If you find a clean well maintained 100 for 15k with 150k miles, then I'd say you probably won't spend as much as you have planned out. However, at 150k you might find it with original PS Rack, Brake parts, original rad + stat, fan clutch, bushings and ball joints and more. All those cost a lot of money to replace even if you DIY. Don't be scared about possibly buying a well looked after 200k mile truck that may have had a lot of parts taken care and replaced already. BUT do make sure if parts have been replaced, it's mostly OEM where important and done properly. Oh, and then there's rust.

Just for reference, I recently bought a 240k mile 99 LX470 for 6k. Spent 3k in parts in 3 months and it's now up to par and ready for another 100k miles. So all in I'm happy with a $9K truck I know I won't be piling money into within the next few years. *touch wood*

 

[SlowBuild]

I bought a 2006LX with 132k for $16k. Yeah, I overpaid for what I thought was a good example. I was wrong. I’ve probably spent another $15k ‘baselining’ over the past four years. And $15k in fuel. Your numbers might be high, but be prepared for them to be low.

 

[AlpineAccess]

Appreciate the honest opinion - this was my reason for posting. Keep them coming!

There are other factors in this decision obviously, intangibles such as enjoying the vehicle you have, being able to off-road and take advantage of terrain, etc. But the reality is that there is the cost/downtime component to be considered. I want to be realistic rather than going into this with rose colored glasses.

It's interesting because I see a number of for sale posts from folks that have only owned their 100's for a short period. Most have a story about a life-change etc. driving the sale, and maybe some are just being flipped. But I have to imagine a portion of these are folks who thought they could take this on and found out quickly they were in over their heads.

I think people watch too many "overland" youtube videos without realizing those guys are selling a fake lifestyle, funded by companies selling expensive stuff, and documented with thousands of dollars of video equipment - only sharing the fun parts. Then, they come over to this forum and read all about how a 100 is the best vehicle for everyone, but the reality is that a Land Cruiser has NEVER been right for everyone.

After buying one, they spend thousands to baseline/modify them, and get them into quite good running order before actually driving it. Having to live with it for awhile, they realize they exchanged capabilities that they don't need for capabilities that they do need. It's cool to be able to run an unimproved road for hours at a time, but in 99% of their driving they need to be able to pass someone on the highway; corner easily, have more towing capacity, have better braking, etc. Or, they realize they don't have anywhere to camp/offroad or that they don't even like to camp and off road after trying it.

100's are great vehicles, but you have to look at them realistically in relation to your life and what you want and need from a vehicle. You are exchanging a lot by getting one for leverage points that don't mean much to most people. Do you need 7 seats? Do you need a car that can handle unimproved roads for LONG periods, do you need off-road capability for a few hours a week, or do you need off-road capability for days at a time where you may be very remote? Does gas mileage matter AT ALL to you? Do you like working on your own vehicles?

You're asking the right questions in the right place, and have a good head on your shoulders to realize there is a "rose tinted lens" to owning any enthusiasts vehicle.

Just one last note on this, the whole baseline - cost of ownership/maintenance, etc. thing can be DRASTICALLY reduced by getting an LC that has been maintained diligently over its whole life. They are rare, but they exist. If you get a good one - even if the miles aren't all that low - they aren't going to cost you an arm and a leg.

 

[Banzai Run]

All great insights, and based on different experiences shared it seems like I would just need to hope for the best but be prepared for the worst with regards to maintenance costs.

AlpineAccess - to be honest I doubt I would ever fully realize the full capabilities of a 100 series. I don't put many miles on my vehicles since I began working from home 5 years ago - this is mostly a secondary vehicle in my household. But just the same I would like something fun and with limited daily driver use it won't need ultra luxury or hi tech gadgets, poor gas mileage is not a deal breaker - I just need a reliable ride and good A/C for the AZ summers. All this is really another reason I don't want to buy a new vehicle - all that depreciation on a vehicle with such limited use.

That said - my family does like to do outdoor stuff, mostly within a half days trip from home. We have spent plenty of time at Grand Canyon, Sedona and various AZ and CA campsites. I handled it fine in the past with my 09 Tahoe mostly without incident except for one time I banged up the bumper pretty bad on a trail drop off.

It's these reasons that got me thinking in the first placed and led me to the idea of a used LC.

 

[AlpineAccess]

All great insights, and based on different experiences shared it seems like I would just need to hope for the best but be prepared for the worst with regards to maintenance costs.

AlpineAccess - to be honest I doubt I would ever fully realize the full capabilities of a 100 series. I don't put many miles on my vehicles since I began working from home 5 years ago - this is mostly a secondary vehicle in my household. But just the same I would like something fun and with limited daily driver use it won't need ultra luxury or hi tech gadgets, poor gas mileage is not a deal breaker - I just need a reliable ride and good A/C for the AZ summers. All this is really another reason I don't want to buy a new vehicle - all that depreciation on a vehicle with such limited use.

That said - my family does like to do outdoor stuff, mostly within a half days trip from home. We have spent plenty of time at Grand Canyon, Sedona and various AZ and CA campsites. I handled it fine in the past with my 09 Tahoe mostly without incident except for one time I banged up the bumper pretty bad on a trail drop off.

It's these reasons that got me thinking in the first placed and led me to the idea of a used LC.

You're definitely thinking about it right. I might suggest a middle ground between a new vehicle and a 20 year old Land Cruiser, a $45k vehicle and a $15k vehicle.

Something like a 20-25k 4Runner is going to suffer very minimal depreciation, is very easy to work on, is 90+% of the offroader that an LC is, and is cheaper to maintain.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

Something like a 20-25k 4Runner is going to suffer very minimal depreciation, is very easy to work on, is 90+% of the offroader that an LC is, and is cheaper to maintain.

This is a good point. Clean, rust-free, 1-owner 5th gen 4Runners with 100k miles can be had all day for $20-25k. The 4.0L v6 engine in them cranks out similar horsepower and torque as the 4.7L v8 in 100 series, they have similar towing capacity, but get better mpg than 100 series.

 

[Banzai Run]

I actually have considered a 4 runner as well - I have a friend who has only owned 4 runners since 1994 been through like 5 of them and loves them. To me they definitely don't have the same appeal and novelty as the LC's but from a practical standpoint it probably does make more sense, and they are much easier to find.

When looking at them the LC looks so much bigger but I was surprised when checking specs to find that they really are not that much different in size.

I guess I'll do a little more research and keep an eye out for LC's. LX's, and 4 runners for the time being. I'm not in a huge rush to find anything so I can be patient until I find what works best for me.

Thanks!
Joe

 

[MJK]

Your numbers seem about right to me. Used almost always beats new for value.

I also agree there are other options for a lower total cost of ownership. How much 'experience' you want to trade off in exchange for it is up to you. I suspect in terms of TCO $20k baselined 100 > $20k used 4 runner > $15k used Camry/Highlander over 8 years.

Of course all of that seems to imply you'll be equally happy over the same 8 years, which I have found not to be true. I've had my favorite car for 20 years, during which time it has doubled in value. The ones I am less passionate about tend to go more quickly and at a substantial loss.

 

[AlpineAccess]

I actually have considered a 4 runner as well - I have a friend who has only owned 4 runners since 1994 been through like 5 of them and loves them. To me they definitely don't have the same appeal and novelty as the LC's but from a practical standpoint it probably does make more sense, and they are much easier to find.

When looking at them the LC looks so much bigger but I was surprised when checking specs to find that they really are not that much different in size.

I guess I'll do a little more research and keep an eye out for LC's. LX's, and 4 runners for the time being. I'm not in a huge rush to find anything so I can be patient until I find what works best for me.

Thanks!
Joe

Dont pass over the GX's, both generations. They are fantastic vehicles and are quite capable while also being easy to maintain.

 

[TrekboxX]

Having had a 2016 4Runner and an 03 100 series at the same time, I can say they are more different than alike as far as suv’s go. The 100 is way more comfortable, better visibility, roomier, and even though on paper they produce about the same power the 100 feels and sounds much better. Even when we got the runner new, both my wife and I preferred the LC. But that’s just all personal opinion.

For cost of ownership, I got lucky I guess. Not counting mods, the 100 has been the least expensive vehicle to own I’ve had so far. And I’ve had a lot of vehicles. But even if it weren’t I would have done it again. I use the 100 for all it’s strengths, and am only now going to sell it due to one of it’s weaknesses since our needs have changed. I haven’t added it all up, but I know depreciation has cost me about 1500/year for the past 8 years. You can’t say that about a Chevy.