Can we talk about 70 series steering columns?
- Thread starter John Young
- Start date
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Seems like a relatively common practice to leave under-dash components unpainted, I've worked on several other vehicles that are the same way. They also always seem to leave every edge of stamped metal razor sharp so your hands get sliced any time you have to dig around behind the dash...
I happened to be working on dash electrical stuff in my '91 Prado today, and noticed that my steering column is painted. I wonder if certain models got paint while others didn't, or if there is a cutoff year after which no columns were painted?
I happened to be working on dash electrical stuff in my '91 Prado today, and noticed that my steering column is painted. I wonder if certain models got paint while others didn't, or if there is a cutoff year after which no columns were painted?
- Thread starter
- #23
The 70s and 80s I have seen did not get the main dash cross beam thing painted. The visible stuff on a 70 did get painted. And I think the 100 was the same. It does seem very strange to me.
But a 91 Prado is essentially a 70 series. So I'm completely lost now.
But a 91 Prado is essentially a 70 series. So I'm completely lost now.
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- #24
Yesterday our regular parts supplier was able to provide a 90363-28001 and a 45225-60010. Unfortunately the 45225-60010 is the bearing at the other end of the steering column, not one of the parts I was looking to replace, which were the two exposed bearings at the top of the steering column.
But the good news was that a local bearing retailer was able to get me some under the NSK 18BSC01 part number. I got four of those as I have more steering columns to do.
And
They were very reasonable. Total for four of the 18BSC01 bearings and one 28BSC01 bearing was only 100 AED which is less than 30 USD. I had to drive for an hour to get there and it is in an old part of Dubai that I really don't like driving to because of the traffic and small roads, but it got done.
I got the new bearings in. I used a vise to compress the preload spring and then was able to insert the retaining circlip, which I think I should replace.
RING, SHAFT SNAP
90520-17042
I bent the one on the steering shaft. I was able to squeeze it back and it is holding but I certainly do not trust it.
I got it all the top shaft in the housing and it operates smoothly but there is quite a bit of preload/stiction to it.
But the good news was that a local bearing retailer was able to get me some under the NSK 18BSC01 part number. I got four of those as I have more steering columns to do.
And
They were very reasonable. Total for four of the 18BSC01 bearings and one 28BSC01 bearing was only 100 AED which is less than 30 USD. I had to drive for an hour to get there and it is in an old part of Dubai that I really don't like driving to because of the traffic and small roads, but it got done.
I got the new bearings in. I used a vise to compress the preload spring and then was able to insert the retaining circlip, which I think I should replace.
RING, SHAFT SNAP
90520-17042
I bent the one on the steering shaft. I was able to squeeze it back and it is holding but I certainly do not trust it.
I got it all the top shaft in the housing and it operates smoothly but there is quite a bit of preload/stiction to it.
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- #25
Going back to my reference photos was not as helpful as I had hoped. I only had a photo of one side of the upper assembly in the original condition.
So I can confirm that the dust retainer plastic ring was facing outward originally. I assumed the same for the bearing on the other side of this upper housing. As mentioned in the video the assembly just seems a little stiff. Maybe I am overthinking it.
Everything is otherwise ready to go back together tomorrow.
I will also take a look at the bearing at the other end of the steering column and clean it up or maybe replace it depending on what I find.
So I can confirm that the dust retainer plastic ring was facing outward originally. I assumed the same for the bearing on the other side of this upper housing. As mentioned in the video the assembly just seems a little stiff. Maybe I am overthinking it.
Everything is otherwise ready to go back together tomorrow.
I will also take a look at the bearing at the other end of the steering column and clean it up or maybe replace it depending on what I find.
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- #26
Hmmm....
Looking closely at the original bearings...
The 18BSC01 is more or less flush on both sides. The 28BSC01 on the other hand is recessed on the side away from the dust seal. If I somehow flipped that during assembly that would have the plastic ring rubbing against the inner race.
I will take it apart again tomorrow and check it.
Another interesting thing about these bearings is that they are actually quite loose. I think that means that they are very much designed to be pre-loaded axially in only one direction. That's another reason to take it apart again and make sure I have the dust cover facing out on both sides.
Looking closely at the original bearings...
The 18BSC01 is more or less flush on both sides. The 28BSC01 on the other hand is recessed on the side away from the dust seal. If I somehow flipped that during assembly that would have the plastic ring rubbing against the inner race.
I will take it apart again tomorrow and check it.
Another interesting thing about these bearings is that they are actually quite loose. I think that means that they are very much designed to be pre-loaded axially in only one direction. That's another reason to take it apart again and make sure I have the dust cover facing out on both sides.
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- #27
Well it did turn out I had boned it.
When I took the unit apart again I found the issue.
If you look close you will see that the inner bearing race is flush with the yellow plastic ring which means it rubs on the yellow ring.
By flipping the bearing over the inner race is now substantially recessed and the yellow ring no longer rubs.
And the feel seems right. No wobble or runout but also pretty low resistance to turning.
When I took the unit apart again I found the issue.
If you look close you will see that the inner bearing race is flush with the yellow plastic ring which means it rubs on the yellow ring.
By flipping the bearing over the inner race is now substantially recessed and the yellow ring no longer rubs.
And the feel seems right. No wobble or runout but also pretty low resistance to turning.
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- #29
Today I started fooling with the other end. The end that goes through the firewall.
The bearing (which was the part identified by @OGBeno) was in good shape except for a strange foam-like dust seal which had, itself, turned to dust.
This part is an NSK 30BSCT05B. I decided not to replace it but to use a couple of concentric O rings to approximate the foam seal that had disintegrated.
And I'm also touching up the back side of the mounting plate with some Rustoleum primer and paint.
Hopefully I will be able to get the whole thing back together tomorrow.
The bearing (which was the part identified by @OGBeno) was in good shape except for a strange foam-like dust seal which had, itself, turned to dust.
This part is an NSK 30BSCT05B. I decided not to replace it but to use a couple of concentric O rings to approximate the foam seal that had disintegrated.
And I'm also touching up the back side of the mounting plate with some Rustoleum primer and paint.
Hopefully I will be able to get the whole thing back together tomorrow.
- Thread starter
- #30
And I started putting things together again.
But I screwed up something, or several somethings because the shaft does not extend long enough up to the head to attach to the u-joint in the head portion.
And somehow I lost the little pin that runs in a track to disengage the pawl.
90241-06039
I can't find an image of this part unfortunately. If anyone happens to have one...?
The good news is that it looks simple enough to make if I have to. But I am going to go to the scrapyard today and see if I can find an inexpensive steering column for parts. This will also let me see what I got wrong about the telescoping shaft.
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- #31
So I went off to Sharjah today and bought another steering column for about 140 USD. Part of the reason was it had a nice steering wheel on it, and my current one is very bad. So I spent 140 USD for a 3 dollar part and a steering wheel. But the column part is actually in really nice shape and I might move over some other parts -- certainly it will be nice to have a reference column next to me as I figure out why the shaft in the one I am working on is too short.
I foolishly was trying to take it off in my apartment kitchen and because I was not paying attention I ended up shoving it on more tightly. So tomorrow I will remove the wheel properly at the garage.
Also I have not been able to find the steering column support bracket.
And so far neither have the guys at the garage. But I was rummaging on my balcony and found one.
I do not know why I had one on my balcony. But there it was.
It is in not too bad a shape. From the color I wonder if it not come from the troopy. At any rate I washed it in the kitchen sink and mixed up a bunch more of the el cheapo de-rusting solution and I will have a look in the morning.
It is already looking better.
I foolishly was trying to take it off in my apartment kitchen and because I was not paying attention I ended up shoving it on more tightly. So tomorrow I will remove the wheel properly at the garage.
Also I have not been able to find the steering column support bracket.
And so far neither have the guys at the garage. But I was rummaging on my balcony and found one.
I do not know why I had one on my balcony. But there it was.
It is in not too bad a shape. From the color I wonder if it not come from the troopy. At any rate I washed it in the kitchen sink and mixed up a bunch more of the el cheapo de-rusting solution and I will have a look in the morning.
It is already looking better.
John, I love the derusting solution. I don’t know why the shaft won’t link up but if you do want to use the breakaway bolt it is 45897-12030.
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- #33
Thank you @bottombracket!
That interested me enough to drag the new old column into the kitchen and pull the cover off to see how that would fit.
And here is the pin itself.
It is only about the size of a pencil eraser. No wonder I could not find photos of it.
Would that breakaway pin bolt in somehow in the same location?
Edit: You know what that bolt looks like to me? It looks like the dumb security bolt that is used on one of the four position to hold the front of the steering column on.
John, the breakaway bolt bolts in the same location as the one you had to grind off- or just use a standard bolt.
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- #35
Thank you for posting that, but no. I hate those damn things. I got mine out with some visegrips. Don't want to have to do that again!
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- #36
I'm always kind of amazed when I use the el cheapo derusting solution.
Overnight in the same tub with:
It is not quite fully baked. But I will use a wire brush on it and stick this end in a small container of the stuff at a higher concentration.
It works well on bolts, but a word of warning: It wipes out the factory plating. When I do this I usually use brush on black paint to protect the fastener after installation. Or I send them out for replating.
Overnight in the same tub with:
It is not quite fully baked. But I will use a wire brush on it and stick this end in a small container of the stuff at a higher concentration.
It works well on bolts, but a word of warning: It wipes out the factory plating. When I do this I usually use brush on black paint to protect the fastener after installation. Or I send them out for replating.
- Thread starter
- #37
I learned some stuff today by looking the steering column I had been working on next to the one fresh from the salvage yard.
Something was fishy with the column I had been working on.
I had been pushing the bearing way down the bottom end to try to get things to come together at the top end.
But the proper position for the lower bearing is quite close to the end:
Something was fishy with the column I had been working on.
I had been pushing the bearing way down the bottom end to try to get things to come together at the top end.
But the proper position for the lower bearing is quite close to the end:
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- #38
Similarly at the top end, the shaft is supposed to come out quite a ways.
But mine was not.
You can see the problem more clearly here:
I had it in my mind that the telescoping shaft was necessary as part of the tilt geometry. I kept thinking that the shaft should telescope smoothly. I used the spare upper u-joint to hold the top end of the short shaft by putting it in a vise and I gave it a good yank, and it lengthened substantially.
I think put some lithium spray grease on it and worked it in and out until ultimately it just popped out.
But mine was not.
You can see the problem more clearly here:
I had it in my mind that the telescoping shaft was necessary as part of the tilt geometry. I kept thinking that the shaft should telescope smoothly. I used the spare upper u-joint to hold the top end of the short shaft by putting it in a vise and I gave it a good yank, and it lengthened substantially.
I think put some lithium spray grease on it and worked it in and out until ultimately it just popped out.
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- #39
Seeing the rust on the short shaft I decided to use the shaft from the new steering column. By this time I was concerned not to loose track of the proper position, so I painted a line indicating the position of the shaft as it came out of the new steering column.
And then I tried to free up the new shaft without much success until suddenly I figured out I had the whole schema completely wrong.
All this is about having a collapsing steering column. The shaft is not supposed to go in and out in normal operation. Only in the case of an accident. And even the outer shroud is telescoping. I had been using a press on the first steering column and I had noticed the housing shortening before I pushed out the inner shaft. I figured I had really screwed things up. But now I realize that both the housing and the inner shaft are designed to collapse in the case of an accident.
I never figured a 70 series would have that kind of safety feature. Learn something new every day!
I think the first column shaft and housing are kind of a lost cause at this point. When I pulled the shaft completely apart some inner bits of plastic flew off and broke. And without them the shaft has substantial side-to-side play. But I have the shaft from the new steering column so no harm done really.
The new column has a much better foam ring too, so I will be taking bits and pieces from the new column and using them to make one complete column.
And I got the steering wheel off today.
These things are always pretty rusty. So in it goes into the soup!
And then I tried to free up the new shaft without much success until suddenly I figured out I had the whole schema completely wrong.
All this is about having a collapsing steering column. The shaft is not supposed to go in and out in normal operation. Only in the case of an accident. And even the outer shroud is telescoping. I had been using a press on the first steering column and I had noticed the housing shortening before I pushed out the inner shaft. I figured I had really screwed things up. But now I realize that both the housing and the inner shaft are designed to collapse in the case of an accident.
I never figured a 70 series would have that kind of safety feature. Learn something new every day!
I think the first column shaft and housing are kind of a lost cause at this point. When I pulled the shaft completely apart some inner bits of plastic flew off and broke. And without them the shaft has substantial side-to-side play. But I have the shaft from the new steering column so no harm done really.
The new column has a much better foam ring too, so I will be taking bits and pieces from the new column and using them to make one complete column.
And I got the steering wheel off today.
These things are always pretty rusty. So in it goes into the soup!
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- #40