Cam Lobe wear (1 Viewer)

[Spike Strip]

VR-1 (Valvoline Racing oil), though high in ZDDP, is not intended for long, or even moderate drain intervals. It's a RACING oil, which means you run it-drain it. Its additive package is designed to work fast and furious - and be depleted quickly, which makes the oil a poor choice for cruiser motors.

The Delo 400 Multigrade SAE 15W-40 (API CI-4 PLUS) is a great oil for older flat-tappet gas motors, but the trouble is, it's F$!*%%@N' impossible to find, unless you have a fleet-lubrication sales place or farm/tractor supply near you. Out here in So. Kali, only thing avail is the 400 LE.

To kind of get around this, I run 6 qts of Rotella T, and BAM! - I kick it up a notch with 2 qts of VR-1 just to goose the wear goodies a bit. Drain at 3-5k miles.

Other thing is to buy some of the boutique oils ($$$) or diesel-rated amsoil prods

 

[amaurer]

VR-1 (Valvoline Racing oil), though high in ZDDP, is not intended for long, or even moderate drain intervals. It's a RACING oil, which means you run it-drain it. Its additive package is designed to work fast and furious - and be depleted quickly, which makes the oil a poor choice for cruiser motors.

Nah, not really. You may be right about racing oil, but the VR-1 on the shelf in the store doesn't count - its called "racing oil" as a marketing gimmick only, its got all the usual additives... plus more zinc.

Valvoline recommends 3000mi OCI for VR-1, same as they recommend for all their oils.

Ref:

Be careful with conventional racing oils- they dont have the same detergent packages as regular street-use oils. Most times, the oil change interval is reduced from 3,000 miles to ~500. VR1 maintains the standard detergent package so it has a normal recommended OCI.

Valvoline VR1 racing oil in name only - CorrectCraftFan.com Forums - Page 1

I have never heard anything bad about VR-1. Only good. It does have a high ZDDP level and there are now two VR-1's. The racing with the lower detergent and the new street VR-1 WITH detergents.
...
there are 3 valvoline racing oils, 2 are VR-1 and 1 is clearly marked "not street legal". the "not street legal" has lower detergent levels and is labeled as such. either of the other 2 oils VR-1 or VR-1 synthetic are perfectly suited for street use and say so on the website. they are not long drain oils but for 3k you would be fine with either one.

Valvoline VR1 - Bob Is The Oil Guy

It's my understanding that the VR1 has the needed detergents. The Valvoline conventional racing oil in the black bottle DOES NOT (As per phone conversation with Valvoline tech). The valvoline tech said the VR1 is good for my flat tappet engine and good for 3000 mile drain intervals

On the product information PDF, the VR1 states that " Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is for use in any car, light truck, van, or SUV where API “SM” is recommended". The black bottle racing oil info... "Note: The Valvoline NOT STREET LEGAL RACING MOTOR OILS are recommended for racetrack applications only."

Jeep Strokers • Valvoline VR1 oil

 

[Spike Strip]

That's good to know. Thanks. Now I can leave it in an extra hundred miles ...

 

[Pdwight]

Back to my question

and sorry for the thread hijack

I am re building my 2F (it only has 85K original miles) I am going to do new rings, get the head redone at a shop, new seals...of course new Toyota gaskets.....what oil would you run....I want to do this right

 

[FJ40Jim]

I don't trust an oil that passes the EPA mandated SM grading. SM means the oil does not have enough zinc/phosphorous/moly to come anywhere near hurting a WB O2 sensor. If there is a VR1 oil that is SM rated, then it is not what used to be called VR1 racing oil.

 

[Spike Strip]

Nah, not really. You may be right about racing oil, but the VR-1 on the shelf in the store doesn't count - its called "racing oil" as a marketing gimmick only, its got all the usual additives... plus more zinc.

Yes, more Zinc/Phos, but as Jim states, it's SM rated so it may be more, but still at or below the levels to pass the SM rating, i.e, not enough for your flat-tappet air pump.

The VR1 I use w/ Rotella is the black-bottle "not street legal" goop, low-detergent. A school of thought believes this also slightly dilutes the high-detergent diesel Rotella T to better suit the sparker engine. I dunno. But it's what is easily available here and fairly inexpensive.

As far as the OP Q goes: If you don't mind $80 for an oil change, this Amsoil is a good choice: AMSOIL - Synthetic Blend 15W-40 Heavy Duty Motor Oil (PCO) and can be dropped-shipped to your door.

For a cheaper alternative, find a diesel fleet supplier and get a CI-4+ rated oil.

Sheesh! There has been more time wasted on these fawking oil threads than any other topic I've seen.

 

[MtnTrucker]

This unfortunately is incorrect. All new diesel oils are rated CJ-4 for 2007-newer clean diesels and rated SM for newest spark engines. Zinc and other good additives will pollute a wideband O2 sensor, new cats and the new DPF exhaust filters. Therefore all oil with the most current ratings is pretty much bad for old engines.

Dang, good point, I was still thinking in terms of the older diesel oils. JimC is right again, as usual

Guess I'll just start using the zinc additives in it.

 

[Pdwight]

What additives

The old fashioned stuff like STP ?? give me names

 

[amaurer]

Yes, more Zinc/Phos, but as Jim states, it's SM rated so it may be more, but still at or below the levels to pass the SM rating, i.e, not enough for your flat-tappet air pump.

For a cheaper alternative, find a diesel fleet supplier and get a CI-4+ rated oil.

Sheesh! There has been more time wasted on these fawking oil threads than any other topic I've seen.

Its because tribologists acount for 0.0000001% of the internet, but posts about tribology account for 30-34% (my estimate ). No, I am not a tribologist. I also don't use VR-1 (too spendy) so I'm not trying to evangelize.

SM ratings do not limit zinc - or if they do, I can't find any hard evidence about it. However SM brought with it ILSAC GF-4 requirements, which DO limit zinc to 0.08-0.7ppm depending on viscosity.

Valvoline's data sheet lists the zinc content for VR-1 as 1200/1300ppm. It also points out that there is no SM rating on the 10W-30. All VR-1's do have a CD rating, which is even older than CI-4.

What VR-1 does not have is the GF-4 rating, apparently due to the zinc. I found a post from Valvoline on another forum:

We are not able to join the forums, but we can give you the answer you need, or maybe would like to add to the forum. Our VR1 Racing Oil is NOT just an "ordinary new car street oil" as listed. Our Valvoline VR1 Racing Oils can be used in street applications, but still contains the high amount of ZDDP (Zinc and Phosphorus). This information can be found on our Valvoline.com website, under the section where it lists the Racing Oils. We have also added the product information sheet for both the VR1 and the "Not Street Legal" Racing oils. As you will see, Valvoline still contains 1200 ppm Zinc content in our regular conventional VR1. It does carry the API Service "SM" rating, but this oil was not made to change for emission standards due to it not being a "ordinary street car oil." This information clearly states the amount of both the Zinc and Phosphorus levels in the oils. The main difference between the the "Not Street Legal" racing oil, or commonly known as Conventional and Synthetic Racing oils, and the VR1 is the Calcium content. Calcium levels are higher in the NSL oils, compared to the VR1, and the NSL oil is only recommended for 500 mile oil changes, while the VR1 is a 3 month/3,000 mile oil.
Valvoline stands behind the flat-tappet and more aggressive type cam applications 100% with our Valvoline VR1 and NSL Racing oils. The proof is in our product information sheets, which are online for the viewing as well.

Here are the product information sheets with test results for all of VR1, Not Street Legal conventional, and Not Street Legal Synthetic.


Thank you,


Valvoline

Adding to what we stated earlier, we have read throughout the forum. We see a lot of references to the API Service "SM" rating, being the main cause for catalytic converter damage. SM is basically just a gasoline rating. The S stands for Spark ignition, which refers to the ignition for gasoline type vehicles. When an oil has an SM rating, that just plainly means that the oil past the specific API (American Petroleum Institute) test requirements to obtain this specification. It has nothing to do with catalytic converters. The rating that stands out on conventional motor oils, (Premium conventional, Durablend, & Synpower) is the GF-3 and GF-4 ratings. These are energy conserving ratings that are necessary because of the Environmental Protection Agency mandating federal standards to further reduce emissions, beginning with '05 vehicles. These are the ratings that make the oil safe for catalyst effectiveness, and these ratings are not found on the VR1 Racing Oils due the ZDDP additive content, not API Service "SM."

Hope this helps,

Valvoline

VR1 Racing Oil isn't the oil we thought it was - Page 2 - Corvette Forum

 

[primer7]

It would seem that I can change the cam without removing the engine, the next question is what should I replace it with parts wise? OEM, OEM & Aftermarket. are there any threads covering the cam replacement as I've not been able to find one.

Thanks to all who responded!

Keith

 

[chicago]

It would seem that I can change the cam without removing the engine, the next question is what should I replace it with parts wise? OEM, OEM & Aftermarket. are there any threads covering the cam replacement as I've not been able to find one.

Thanks to all who responded!

Keith

DUDE!!!
Just STOP taking things APART and all your problems are solved!
I was surprised to find that a rebuild kit for these motors is really FAWKING expensive. Like 15-1800.00 expensive.
I know that youre not looking into THAT, but youre getting there.
If I can help, lemme know.

K

 

[chicago]

BTW, did you see this?
He's local!

https://forum.ih8mud.com/nv-battle-born-cruisers-northern-nevada/423134-2f-sale.html

Just a thought.

K

 

[primer7]

I know I think things are starting to spin out of control. $OR wants almost $500 just for a rebuilt cam...but the cam does look "Jack'd Up" and it's tough to just button the thing up and go back to driving it. Way to A.D.D. for my own good.

 

[FJ40Jim]

It's an FJ40. Put some oil in it and drive it. Another 50000 miles and the cam will be so wiped the truck won't be able to get out of it's own way. Since the average FJ40 sees 2000miles a year, you've got 25 years to think about how to deal w/ the cam issue.

 

[primer7]

He's got a point

 

[chicago]

Seriously...
Im pretty sure that you could find a decent running 2F that someone has pulled to throw in a SBC motor and for probably less than the cam itself.
It all depends on how far you wanna take it and ultimately whether or not you wanna keep the rig. If its a rig you want to keep for a good long time then I would recommend thinking long term for reliability.

 

[Pdwight]

I was not able to find one, I looked for the last year hoping to find a decent running 2F I could get to my house for 3 to 5 hundred....no luck. I am rebuilding mine now.....early christmas gift to me

I would like to know what oil to run in it when I get it together.

 

[Spike Strip]

Just to add to this thread:

Recently came across this oil, avail at my local So Cal Autozone. CI-4 and SL rated. Should be just fine for older motors. Only oil on the shelf I've been able to find that's still under the older spec.

$4.50 a qt.

 

[ingomar]

The most critical time for any flat-tappet cam is the instant the engine is first started. All the cam mfg's I've dealt with insist you use a special "break-in" lube. This stuff is usually in a small tube, and is thick like grease. You smear it all over the lobes/lifters. Most will also tell you to add a bottle of liquid cam break-in lube to the engine as well. Several companies sell this (like Comp Cams). GM also had a product called EOS (engine oil supplement) that was for the same purpose; zinc levels in these products are very high. They will also tell you not to let the engine idle, you should start it and immediately bring it to 2000 rpm and keep it there for 20 minutes. This throws lots of oil on the cam. Use an "old formula" oil with good zinc levels, like the Valvoline or diesel fleet stuff. All this is to stop any metal transfer between the lobe and lifters; if you scuff it on start-up the process continues and it will quickly self-destruct. Don't try to run used lifters with a new cam. This really isn't the hassle it sounds; it just takes a little pre-planning and is worth it.

 

[apeterson]

bringing back an old thread.... so if I can not find any of the good oil to run locally, ( I really have not looked) but could you just add some zinc additive to the oil and call it good? The stuff I bought said it is for older engines and helps cam wear...

what are your thoughts?