Brake question

[GDA62/100]

The problem, the brakes just don't feel right. There is plenty of stopping power, but when you apply the brakes and hold the pedal in one position, the rate of deceleration increases as speed decreases and the vehicle comes to an abrupt, head snapping stop versus a smooth controlled stop. I can back off the pedal with some concentrated effort and make the deceleration and stop smooth and controlled. The pedal feel is not spongy, but there doesn't seem to be good feedback from the pedal, either. I hope someone knows what I mean.
I took it to the dealership and had a technician and the service writer drive it, but they don't think there is anything wrong with it. (Same dealership that didn't have a technician with any idea of how the windshield trim is removed and replaced. So, my trust is not there.)
I know the PO had the front brake pads replaced not too long before I purchased it and I suspect there are Raybestos pads on it and the service was done by a relative or some other bubba who professed to have automotive expertise.
I've read the troubleshooting information in the FSM and I can't come to any conclusion. I am about to change the pads to OEM and do my best to bleed the system. The FSM specifies some special Toyota electronic tools to bleed the booster and some other crap, but I think the calipers can be bled the old fashioned way or with the Mityvac.
Any ideas?
I'd so like to have it stop like my FJ62, just stomp on it and it stops.
I'll never hear the end of it from my precious wife if it's expensive to fix. She has a heck of a time stopping it smoothly.

Thanks in advance, GDA

 

[spressomon]

The problem, the brakes just don't feel right. There is plenty of stopping power, but when you apply the brakes and hold the pedal in one position, the rate of deceleration increases as speed decreases and the vehicle comes to an abrupt, head snapping stop versus a smooth controlled stop. I can back off the pedal with some concentrated effort and make the deceleration and stop smooth and controlled. The pedal feel is not spongy, but there doesn't seem to be good feedback from the pedal, either. I hope someone knows what I mean.
I took it to the dealership and had a technician and the service writer drive it, but they don't think there is anything wrong with it. (Same dealership that didn't have a technician with any idea of how the windshield trim is removed and replaced. So, my trust is not there.)
I know the PO had the front brake pads replaced not too long before I purchased it and I suspect there are Raybestos pads on it and the service was done by a relative or some other bubba who professed to have automotive expertise.
I've read the troubleshooting information in the FSM and I can't come to any conclusion. I am about to change the pads to OEM and do my best to bleed the system. The FSM specifies some special Toyota electronic tools to bleed the booster and some other crap, but I think the calipers can be bled the old fashioned way or with the Mityvac.
Any ideas?
I'd so like to have it stop like my FJ62, just stomp on it and it stops.
I'll never hear the end of it from my precious wife if it's expensive to fix. She has a heck of a time stopping it smoothly.

Thanks in advance, GDA

GDA: Before I did all the weight increasing mods (and increased tire circ.) to my rig I was not really that happy with the brake performance (but to be fair I had not tested any other LC's either to get a benchmark). I did not experience the non-linear response you describe however I felt mine did not have the peak power it should. Not knowing what pads the PO used I eventually, after adding nearly 1,000lbs of mods, switched to cryo'd partially slotted rotors, kevlar pads, SS lines and the darn thing stops like I always thought it should...even better considering all the extra weight and 35" tires...and the modulation is much, much better to boot. You will find a great deal of differing opinions regarding brakes here...

Sorry I didn't really answer your question but describing brake feel is so ambiguous to say the least. If your rotors are in good shape it might be best to check the pistons to make sure they are floating properly, install OEM pads and replace the brake fluid and bleed down properly. FYI: You will probably want to replace the pins that hold the front pads in place as they are difficult to remove without damaging (1-pair per side) and are relatively cheap to buy. Also as you probably know be sure to use disc brake high temp grease when reassembling...

 

[spressomon]

Oh yeah...someone here posted up a much easier method to bleeding the brake booster. Take the rig out on a gravel road and brake hard enough, repeatedly, to activate the ABS. Evidently this action flushes brake fluid through the booster.

 

[GDA62/100]

Thanks for the response. Trying to describe it is tough. But, I know it isn't right.
If I could afford to upgrade...
Looks like I'll go back to OEM and do a complete fluid change as well as the pins. Now, to find the time.

On another note, why can so few people, who you compensate with hourly rate $$, do quality work on one of these things?

Becoming one with the machine, GDA

 

[GDA62/100]

Got to find a gravel road... I've heard rumors that there are some around here. I haven't driven on one in years.

 

[spressomon]

Thanks for the response. Trying to describe it is tough. But, I know it isn't right.
If I could afford to upgrade...
Looks like I'll go back to OEM and do a complete fluid change as well as the pins. Now, to find the time.

On another note, why can so few people, who you compensate with hourly rate $$, do quality work on one of these things?

Becoming one with the machine, GDA

You know I have always tried to do my own work...on all my gear and vehicles. And everyonce in a while over the years I got lazy...or intimidated...and hired it out only to have been disappointed. I would rather KNOW that I effed something up and learned from it than to have paid someone who was supposed to know what they were doing and after getting whatever it was back from the shop fully EXPECTING 100%...and only getting dissatisfied and stressed out in the end. I think it is just easier overall to do the work yourself assuming you have a little time, the tools and motivation to learn as you go...far cheaper in the long run and significantly lower stress overall!

 

[spressomon]

One last thing to check: All the brake lines and hoses: Especially the solid brake line that runs along the rear axle housing...make sure there are no kinks or signs of such!

 

[NMuzj100]

I think it is just easier overall to do the work yourself assuming you have a little time, the tools and motivation to learn as you go...far cheaper in the long run and significantly lower stress overall!

The problem is the more you do your own work the more likely you are to notice the lousy quality of any work you pay to get done. If you want it done right ... or (in my case) if you want to at least know where the corners were cut ...

Good thread for front end brake work.

Follow the stoptech links and read all of their tech papers before doing your brake work. Very good stuff.