Brake pads - Hawk LTS vs Toyota TRD

[matt13]

I didn't like the performance from the stock brakes on such a heavy truck, so I tried both the Hawk LTS and Toyota TRD front pads recently. Sticking with the TRD pads. Much more initial bite and perform well even cold. The pedal feel also seems improved. The downside of the TRD pad is much more brake dust. German car levels of black dust - for me it's worth the performance gain. LTS didn't seem to grab very well, but did have low-ish brake dust. I did a long trip with the LTS and couldn't wait to swap them out when I got back.

I went with Stoptech cryo slotted rotors up front. So far they are holding up well still unknown if the cryo treatment will make them last longer. Shop around for a good price because it seems to vary wildly.

I'm very happy with the Toyota TRD pads and Stoptech slotted rotors up front, and OE Toyota in the rear. It did shift the brake bias frontward, so I am eager to test in the snow to make sure it's not too much. I'll probably go to TRD pads all around when it's time to replace the rears.

Links for part # reference (these fit a 2009, check for your year)
Amazon.com: StopTech (126.44162CSR) Brake Rotor: Automotive
Amazon.com: StopTech (126.44162CSL) Brake Rotor: Automotive
Amazon.com: Genuine Toyota Parts PTR09-0C111 TRD Performance Brake Pad: Automotive

 

[Reckless]

Thanks for posting this, this has been an issue for me as well. I plan on doing the Tundra brake upgrade next time brakes are needed. If TRD pads work with it I will order them.

 

[hankinid]

Our 200 has StopTech drilled and unidirectionally slotted rotors and their fleet brake pads front and rear. A major improvement imo v. oem. Easily modulated braking in snow and snow / ice conditions, and definitely "not too much in snow". Blizzak VM-2's also make a major difference.

Steve

 

[chilibit]

I didn't like the performance from the stock brakes on such a heavy truck, so I tried both the Hawk LTS and Toyota TRD front pads recently. Sticking with the TRD pads. Much more initial bite and perform well even cold. The pedal feel also seems improved. The downside of the TRD pad is much more brake dust. German car levels of black dust - for me it's worth the performance gain. LTS didn't seem to grab very well, but did have low-ish brake dust. I did a long trip with the LTS and couldn't wait to swap them out when I got back.

I went with Stoptech cryo slotted rotors up front. So far they are holding up well still unknown if the cryo treatment will make them last longer. Shop around for a good price because it seems to vary wildly.

I'm very happy with the Toyota TRD pads and Stoptech slotted rotors up front, and OE Toyota in the rear. It did shift the brake bias frontward, so I am eager to test in the snow to make sure it's not too much. I'll probably go to TRD pads all around when it's time to replace the rears.

Links for part # reference (these fit a 2009, check for your year)
Amazon.com: StopTech (126.44162CSR) Brake Rotor: Automotive
Amazon.com: StopTech (126.44162CSL) Brake Rotor: Automotive
Amazon.com: Genuine Toyota Parts PTR09-0C111 TRD Performance Brake Pad: Automotive

Thanks for the investigation. The ABS can help but not correct the bias issue. In my experience your comments about German cars fits US spec cars but not cars on the road in Germany where a harder compound seems to be in play. I think it is because they appreciate the ability to modulate and less fade from high speed whereas the US 'wants' easy. Just my opinion and a bit sad but it can be fixed. I, like many, would reason appreciate more bite on the 200. I spoke to Brian once about the disconnected feel that the stock brakes have and he implied it is a deliberate result of the design. It works but it lacks finesse big time. Also, just my opinion.

 

[linuxgod]

I'm very happy with the Toyota TRD pads and Stoptech slotted rotors up front, and OE Toyota in the rear. It did shift the brake bias frontward, so I am eager to test in the snow to make sure it's not too much. I'll probably go to TRD pads all around when it's time to replace the rears.

How many miles do you have? I wonder if it shifted the bias forward (compared to new), or if it just feels that way because your bias has slowly been shifting backwards over the last X thousand miles?

Sounds like you only did the front. How much pad was left on your rears? When mine were checked the rears were actually slightly lower than the front. Based on that I expect to replace them at the same time, and I'm wondering if the bias change is also related to new pads and rotors up front but older ones in the rear?

 

[LALC]

I came from a BMW M vehicle with M brakes to a 2016 LC and just fyi the brakes on the 2016 feel just as comfortable as they did in the BMW M. That's saying a lot. Now if only the seats wrapped me up like a baby same as the M I'd be ecstatic.

 

[matt13]

I came from a BMW M vehicle with M brakes to a 2016 LC and just fyi the brakes on the 2016 feel just as comfortable as they did in the BMW M. That's saying a lot. Now if only the seats wrapped me up like a baby same as the M I'd be ecstatic.

Wonder if they changed the brakes on the 2016+ models. I had an M5 and I do miss the seats.

 

[matt13]

How many miles do you have? I wonder if it shifted the bias forward (compared to new), or if it just feels that way because your bias has slowly been shifting backwards over the last X thousand miles?

Sounds like you only did the front. How much pad was left on your rears? When mine were checked the rears were actually slightly lower than the front. Based on that I expect to replace them at the same time, and I'm wondering if the bias change is also related to new pads and rotors up front but older ones in the rear?

Rear brakes have ~3k miles on them and were new when I put in the Hawk LTS. I went from front OE->Hawk LTS->TRD, so now that you mention it, for all I know the bias isn't that far off stock because I never went from OE->TRD.

 

[matt13]

I, like many, would reason appreciate more bite on the 200. I spoke to Brian once about the disconnected feel that the stock brakes have and he implied it is a deliberate result of the design. It works but it lacks finesse big time. Also, just my opinion.

TRD pads definitely have more bite, especially when hot. They modulate pretty well for such a heavy vehicle. However, brake pedal still has the 1 inch of takeup before it firms up and starts to apply the brakes.

 

[LALC]

Wonder if they changed the brakes on the 2016+ models. I had an M5 and I do miss the seats.

They did, 2016 use Tundra brakes.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

TRD pads definitely have more bite, especially when hot. They modulate pretty well for such a heavy vehicle. However, brake pedal still has the 1 inch of takeup before it firms up and starts to apply the brakes.

If you want to take that squish out of the pedal, I recommend replacing your 6 rubber lines with steel braided. That is where you are feeling the expansion of those lines from the master cylinder transmitted to the peddle. Pads and disks (don't even get me started on disks) don't even compare to a fully metal brake system.

Pad related, I totally agree with you, I've ran both those pads plus some others and TRD always gave me the shortest stoping distances out on the track, not by much, but enough.

 

[Reckless]

If you want to take that squish out of the pedal, I recommend replacing your 6 rubber lines with steel braided. That is where you are feeling the expansion of those lines from the master cylinder transmitted to the peddle. Pads and disks (don't even get me started on disks) don't even compare to a fully metal brake system.

Pad related, I totally agree with you, I've ran both those pads plus some others and TRD always gave me the shortest stoping distances out on the track, not by much, but enough.

Did you replace your rubber lines with steel braided? I tried doing this on my other cars but my Albanian mechanic talked me out of it claiming that to be untrue.

 

[usmcHOG]

Did you replace your rubber lines with steel braided? I tried doing this on my other cars but my Albanian mechanic talked me out of it claiming that to be untrue.

Braided will always be better then OEM rubber lines. Standard physics. If the pressure applied is allowed to expand, it will.

 

[Reckless]

Maybe I misunderstood him, I think it was regarding stopping distance.

 

[mark71]

Braided will always be better then OEM rubber lines. Standard physics. If the pressure applied is allowed to expand, it will.

I've definitely noticed that in older cars. Since Toyota generally didn't cut corners in the LC design, I wonder if there is a disadvantage to the braided steel. If not, why didn't they install from the factory?

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

I've definitely noticed that in older cars. Since Toyota generally didn't cut corners in the LC design, I wonder if there is a disadvantage to the braided steel. If not, why didn't they install from the factory?

From my 200 when I went to braided, ohh, yeah!, there is a big difference.

The reason why the LC didn't get steel from the factory is because rubber is actually very good, it's super strong, can take pinches better, can in theory handle the elements better, and much cheaper. While there is a lot that goes into a brake system, not all vehicles need steel braided to have a very hard brake pedal feel. My dads Lexus RX has the hardest brakes I've ever felt and that has rubber lines. But on my 200, FJ, and Tacoma, steel braided was the only thing that actually had a measurable improvement in brake engagement.

 

[linuxgod]

I've definitely noticed that in older cars. Since Toyota generally didn't cut corners in the LC design, I wonder if there is a disadvantage to the braided steel. If not, why didn't they install from the factory?

Two reasons, I think:

1. Most people not on this forum like the feel of soft brakes. Think about how your parents/spouse/friends drive. Do they want firm, highly responsive brakes and a tight suspension? No, they want soft suspension that soaks up the bumps and brakes which never bite so quick they shove you into the seat belt unless it's an emergency maneuver.

2. Braided hoses are harder to inspect. If your rubber hose is starting to crack, you can see the cracks when you flex it and know it's time to replace. With a braided hose, you can't see the cracks in the rubber underneath, so you're more likely to use them until they blow out completely on you.

 

[AL LC2013]

I've never heard of DS Performance Brake Pads, but combined with the DBA rotors there is a claim of shorter stopping distances with good resistance to fade.

4WD Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series Stopping Distance Test - Disc Brakes Australia


The DBA upgrade was able to consistently decelerate the Landcruiser at an additional 1.52 metres per second, for a total 100km/h to standstill time of 4.3 seconds on average.
The DBA upgrade also shortened the stopping distance by 6.5 metres on average, and at the time that the DBA setup was at standstill, the OEM setup was still travelling at 37km/h in the unladen Landcruiser – which is where the real difference is found.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

I didn't like the performance from the stock brakes on such a heavy truck, so I tried both the Hawk LTS and Toyota TRD front pads recently. Sticking with the TRD pads. Much more initial bite and perform well even cold. The pedal feel also seems improved. The downside of the TRD pad is much more brake dust. German car levels of black dust - for me it's worth the performance gain. LTS didn't seem to grab very well, but did have low-ish brake dust. I did a long trip with the LTS and couldn't wait to swap them out when I got back.

I went with Stoptech cryo slotted rotors up front. So far they are holding up well still unknown if the cryo treatment will make them last longer. Shop around for a good price because it seems to vary wildly.

I'm very happy with the Toyota TRD pads and Stoptech slotted rotors up front, and OE Toyota in the rear. It did shift the brake bias frontward, so I am eager to test in the snow to make sure it's not too much. I'll probably go to TRD pads all around when it's time to replace the rears.

Links for part # reference (these fit a 2009, check for your year)
Amazon.com: StopTech (126.44162CSR) Brake Rotor: Automotive
Amazon.com: StopTech (126.44162CSL) Brake Rotor: Automotive
Amazon.com: Genuine Toyota Parts PTR09-0C111 TRD Performance Brake Pad: Automotive

I had those disks on my FJ. Really only for the cryo process. The slots aren't going to do much unless you are racing for 30minutes strait.

But cryo is absolutely beneficial. I notiched it the most from hot brakes hitting cold river crossings. I could warp a disk (which is actually really hard to do) before, but with cryo disks, they stayed true. And with crawl control, having a disk ready for heat is a great idea. Hell, I even cryo froze my 4.88s and all differential bearings because of the improvements I've seen over the years.

 

[linuxgod]

I've never heard of DS Performance Brake Pads, but combined with the DBA rotors there is a claim of shorter stopping distances with good resistance to fade.

4WD Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series Stopping Distance Test - Disc Brakes Australia

The DBA upgrade was able to consistently decelerate the Landcruiser at an additional 1.52 metres per second, for a total 100km/h to standstill time of 4.3 seconds on average.
The DBA upgrade also shortened the stopping distance by 6.5 metres on average, and at the time that the DBA setup was at standstill, the OEM setup was still travelling at 37km/h in the unladen Landcruiser – which is where the real difference is found.

I wish DBA would publish the distances for each of the 10 runs, not just the average. Or at least min, max, average, and stdev. Maybe the first few stops with the OEM setup were actually shorter, but the DBA setup had less fade so the last few were much better. Or maybe the DBAs are better all around.

I also wish they would have done the test with OEM pads but DBA rotors. There's nothing in the test that proves to me that the DBA rotors made any significant difference. I think you would have gotten similar performance gains by simply changing from the OEM ceramic pads to semi-metallic, since metallic pads absorb some of the braking heat much better than ceramic.

$0.02