Bad Vibes (shakey 20r)

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Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Threads
36
Messages
185
Location
Marfa, Texas
So here's the sitch: driving down a remote but not impossible road into the desert. Hit a washout harder than I'd have liked but not hard enough to worry. Truck gets noisier and begins vibrating pretty badly. Feels and sounds like a really bad U-joint or driveshaft problem.

The vibes are noticeable over the normal clatter of the truck over 1500 RPM and worsen up to 2200 or so. They are still pretty bad at 3000 but smooth out over 3200. They aren't completely gone, more like the frequency increases enough to dampen the shaking

The vibrations are very specific to engine speed. Not road speed. The truck vibrates just as bad sitting in the driveway with the transmission in neutral and the clutch in as it does motoring down the road.

So, after isolating the motor I am ruling out:
Tires, wheels, axles, prop shafts, gearbox.

I though at first, because of the hard jolt that a motormount gave out. But they appear sound. I stuck a floor jack under the motor and lifted it while inspecting both mounts and they seem fine. Anyway, I wouldn't think a loose motor would shake only with relation to rpm...

I read where some guys were having a very similar problem with their harmonic balancers on 3fs, 2fs etc... But were observing a bushing failure of some kind. The 20R / 22R / RE don't seem to have this bushing. Rather the balencer is just press fit, machined steel. I don't see what could fail there unless the crankshaft end was all wallowed out. The pulley spins true, without any discernable noise, and has no end play or wobble. It seems like a failure here might damage the front main seal as a result but no oil leaks here.

I put a clutch in the truck six mos. back. I started wondering if it was possible that the clutch/pressure plate assembly had slipped out of alignment and was off center on the flywheel. Is this even possible or does the input shaft from the gearbox prevent the possibility?

The flywheel was in good shape at the time of the clutch job. Someone asked if it maybe lost a weight and was unbalanced but the flywheel has no weights by my recollection. True? Thoughts?

I also checked to see if the timing chain tensioning block(s) had broken but the appear to be intact. I don't know the correct tension on the chain but the left side (carb) is taught and the right side (distributor) has an eighth inch of slack or so. Seems ok to me.

I'm contemplating dropping the transmission . But don't really wanna if I don't hafta. Anybody have any input here. I'm at a bit of a loss
 
Still unclear what the hell is going on here. Feel like I'm grasping at straws a little. Imagining springs falling out of the clutch and so on. Anyone out there have any input or experience w something similar?
 
I had a similar issue on my 20R truck but it was the motor mounts. When I pulled the motor out the mounts were completely severed...

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My mounts LOOK good. I would have thought that trying to lift the engine free of the mounts by jacking it up from the bottom would at the very least show cracks or splits in the mounts if not lift her up off the mount entirely. Is this the wrong way to look at the problem? Are the mounts bolted through in such a way that even when the rubber is trashed, there are bolts which keep the motor from breaking loose?

What was the symptom like? Vibrations at certain RPMs? Did it rattle or clunk when hitting bumps or anything else?
 
Have someone rev the engine with the truck in gear, but holding the brakes so it can't move. The torque will try to flex the engine inside the frame. If a mount is broken, the engine will try to roll over. I know a broken engine mount on a 2F will cause the fan to hit the shroud, makes a horrible racket.
 
Mine just vibrated really bad after they both broke. My fan was hitting the fan shroud also but that was bc the engine had actually shifted badly on the mounts. I don't drive it on the road so it broke, I drove it up on the trailer, took it home, an fixed it. (Well, technically that was when I did my 22RE swap, new TG bomb proof mounts went in at the same time)
 
Mine just vibrated really bad after they both broke. My fan was hitting the fan shroud also but that was bc the engine had actually shifted badly on the mounts. I don't drive it on the road so it broke, I drove it up on the trailer, took it home, an fixed it. (Well, technically that was when I did my 22RE swap, new TG bomb proof mounts went in at the same time)

Sounds like a bit of a mess. I definitely don't have any contact with the fan shroud but sure do have a vibration. I have stood over the engine bay and throttled it up while watching the motor as the RPMs get up into the bad range but don't notice any suspicious movement. I haven't got a second pair of hands over here yet to try and torque the motor over in gear but with a floor jack under the oil pan I still can't lift the engine free from either mount.
 
Ok, so tried the "torque over in gear" trick. Nothing budged. Not the mounts. Just not sure what's up here. Anyone ever had harmonic balancer problems? Any thoughts about troubleshooting the clutch / flywheel? I don't hear ant bearing noise (ie, pilot bearing?) is it possible for the flywheel to become unbalanced? I was thinking that could be a symptom but if it's bolted up to the crank, the more I think about it the less possible that seems.

Kinda leaves me with a clutch assembly as the culprit... Any thoughts here? Man... Got me down
 
Were you able to observe the vibration/noise during the test that you describe in post #7?

I could clearly hear the "sound" of the vibration. I expected to see the motor shaking more that usual (which is not much) especially when it reached 2000 Rpm or so but I did NOT see any appreciable difference.

I looked closely at all of the pulleys for wobble or play. I didn't see any. Listened for bearing noise (at the pulleys) as well. Didn't hear any.
 
Truck has been sidelined while sourcing a new harmonic balancer. I installed it over the weekend but no change. Still vibrates like mad. Any help?
 
Vibration that is tied to engine RPM would make me think it's internal. Like you broke a rod or something like that. I would pull the oil pan and see if you can see anything. If you find debris, you find the issue.

Man, I really hope that's not the issue. But I am hanging on to the clutch assembly as the source of the trouble. I haven't had the time to get her apart yet. But maybe after thanksgiving. I'll pull the pan as well and have a look. I'll keep you posted
 
Vibration that is tied to engine RPM would make me think it's internal. Like you broke a rod or something like that. I would pull the oil pan and see if you can see anything. If you find debris, you find the issue.

I guarantee you if it was a broken rod, you would know it within 1 RPM of the engine. I've seen it happen, and yeah a 22RE will still run with a busted rod, but it's very apparent when it happens. Lots of clanging and noise, sounds like a thrashing machine.
 
After I rebuilt my engine I had a bearing fail on the #1 piston. It started as a vibration. The vibration got steadily worse. I pulled my pan and found copper shavings in the pan. Luckily I found it before it killed the motor. At least if he doesn't find anything he can eliminate internal failure.
 
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