AC Leak - New fittings/Orings or new condenser?

[Supra88]

Anyone seen this before? Any recommendations on whether I can salvage this condenser with new fittings/orings. Previous owner had the AC charged right before I purchased it about 6 weeks ago. Looks like they put a dye in.

 

[1972FJ55]

Hard to tell from the pic's, but I'd try an o-ring first. Once you replace the o-ring, clean the dye off the area, then once it's charged you'll be able to see if the leak returns or not.

 

[Michael Hanson]

Or take it by a radiator shop and have them fix it if the o ring is not the fault. MIke

 

[tacoduck]

bump... any update? I know the post is from 2011, but I have the same issue. curious how it was resolved.

 

[flintknapper]

bump... any update? I know the post is from 2011, but I have the same issue. curious how it was resolved.

Doubt we will ever see an update on a thread this is 6 years old. But I can tell you what I would do in that same circumstance.

Judging from the photo in the original post...the condenser is in pretty rough shape (externally). IF it is the original condenser or even one that was very old...I would just replace it. Clearly the fitting is leaking and most likely it is just an O-ring that has failed. It is possible the hose fitting was not tightened properly (if the unit was serviced or replaced) in the past and that is leaking for that reason. The 'Boss' on the condenser could also be damaged from a loose fitting and vibration. Hard to know.

But unless your condenser is fairly new or you KNOW it to be in excellent condition, I would replace it. They aren't real expensive.

You will be evacuating the system either way. I also recommend folks use a product called 'Nylog' at each fitting that uses an O-ring or is threaded. A couple of drops on the mating surfaces is all you need.

 

[tacoduck]

Doubt we will ever see an update on a thread this is 6 years old. But I can tell you what I would do in that same circumstance.

Judging from the photo in the original post...the condenser is in pretty rough shape (externally). IF it is the original condenser or even one that was very old...I would just replace it. Clearly the fitting is leaking and most likely it is just an O-ring that has failed. It is possible the hose fitting was not tightened properly (if the unit was serviced or replaced) in the past and that is leaking for that reason. The 'Boss' on the condenser could also be damaged from a loose fitting and vibration. Hard to know.

But unless your condenser is fairly new or you KNOW it to be in excellent condition, I would replace it. They aren't real expensive.

You will be evacuating the system either way. I also recommend folks use a product called 'Nylog' at each fitting that uses an O-ring or is threaded. A couple of drops on the mating surfaces is all you need.

my truck has 275k miles on it, and I'm guessing the condenser is original, so its probably time. I'm seeing OEM condensers for 250-300 dollars, and aftermarket in the $100 range. Where should I buy?

 

[tacoduck]

well, i went and tightened the 10mm screw, and the head sheared off, and all ac oil left the truck. quickly!!! looks like I'm SOL

help!!! broke my ac condenser...

good times...

 

[flintknapper]

my truck has 275k miles on it, and I'm guessing the condenser is original, so its probably time. I'm seeing OEM condensers for 250-300 dollars, and aftermarket in the $100 range. Where should I buy?

1998-2007 Lexus LX470 A/C Condenser - Denso W0133-1833322 - - PartsGeek.com

^^^^^^^^ Denso

Spectra is also a good condenser (about $130.00)

Its possible your original is still good. 'Mileage' on the vehicle is not indicative of the condition of your condenser.

Both of my vehicles have lived their entire lives in Texas (read HOT climate), so my A/C systems get a work out (at least 9 months of the year), yours may not. The inside of a condenser under normal conditions (refrigerant not contaminated with air, moisture) is not going to 'wear' or become otherwise restricted. The outside of your condenser may be pretty beat up though.

Owing to the location of the condenser...it is subject to having the cooling fins damaged by road debris (fins bent over, tubes dinged, etc) or the spaces between the fins filled with insects, dirt, etc... Sometimes straightening the fins and cleaning the condenser is all that is needed.

As long as your condenser has not been open to atmosphere (moisture and air in system) for long periods, then internal corrosion should not be an issue.

But...for the small amount of trouble to remove and replace...and the relatively low cost, it is often times better to start with a new condenser if you plan to keep the vehicle and funds allow for the modest investment.

 

[flintknapper]

well, i went and tightened the 10mm screw, and the head sheared off, and all ac oil left the truck. quickly!!! looks like I'm SOL

help!!! broke my ac condenser...

good times...

First thing I would do is to go into the house, stay there for a couple days until that little black cloud that is following you around goes away.

^^^^ Bummer.

IF you can drill that bolt out and remove with an EZ-Out (bolt extractor) then yes, you can probably salvage the condenser.

Glad you were not injured by the sudden rush of the refrigerant escaping. Bet that was a startling moment.

Get the hose taped off and the condenser fitting closed up with something so you don't get any more air and moisture in the system than necessary.

 

[tacoduck]

yeah, I'm about to pour a large scotch. sucks because as soon as I can get the part is 3-5 business days...

 

[GregLCA]

Hello Everyone....

Adding my own tale of woe to this thread.... 2001 Land Cruiser, just had the local dealership swap in a new AC condenser due to a crack at the lower corner of the tank. New Toyota OEM part (P/N: 88460-60903) at around $400 (which I provided after purchasing through ToyotaPartsDeal.com).... and another 5.2 hours of labor ($1200) to get it installed, AC fully recharged and out-the-door.

Everything was great for about 2-3 days, but the system starting to lose cooling efficiency and by the 4th day the AC was blowing hot air.

Brought it back today and the tech sent me the following video.




Leak appears to be from around the base of the high pressure fitting. He swapped in a new O-Ring which made no apparent difference.
I was also told that this is NOT a threaded fitting... it's just a press-fit tube & O-Ring which is seated and held by that single 10mm bolt. The O-Ring does all the work here... there are no other gaskets or sealants used to complete this repair.

We really only have 2 options here... either we got a bad condensor which is out-of-spec and won't seal that O-Ring properly internally.... or the high pressure line has spontaneously failed somehow right after this repair was completed.

So the solution is a bit of an expensive gamble for me:

OPTION 1: They order another Toyota condenser themselves and replace it (again). If it holds pressure and doesn't leak... they hand me another bill for $1200 to pay. If it leaks in the same way as the first one did, I pay $0.... and they eat the costs of the misdiagnosis completely. I'm tempted to take this bet since it was a Genuine Toyota part not a cheap Chinese copy.

OPTION 2: We swap only the pressure side line and assume the condensor was not the culprit. It's a less labor-intensive fix but is still around $100 for the part and an hour for labor ($350 total). If it works, I've got working AC again.... if it doesn't.... then we have to conclude the the condenser was truly bad, and swap it out for another $1200.... leaving me at a whopping total repair cost of $2750 (2 condenser swaps plus the high pressure line)

Anyone have any other observations or ideas here?


-G

 

[flintknapper]

Replace the line. Be sure the Tech uses the correct O-Ring and require they use Blue Nylog on the O-ring and the mating surfaces of the line and condenser. I'd wager this will solve the issue. Tell them NOT to lube the O-ring with PAG oil or Mineral Oil, use the Nylog.

 

[GregLCA]

Replace the line. Be sure the Tech uses the correct O-Ring and require they use Blue Nylog on the O-ring and the mating surfaces of the line and condenser. I'd wager this will solve the issue. Tell them NOT to lube the O-ring with PAG oil or Mineral Oil, use the Nylog.

View attachment 3652120

Thanks for the suggestion.

What is the result of the connection after Nylog is applied? Is it basically a glue (like LocTite) that will permanently bond the O-ring to the fitting once it cures? I'm concerned that using this product might end up bonding everything together in a way that prevents the high pressure hose from ever coming off the condenser again without a cutoff wheel... I like the idea of a cheap fix, but if it doesn't work I don't want to end up with damaged parts that can't be salvaged to complete this repair.



-G

 

[flintknapper]

Thanks for the suggestion.

What is the result of the connection after Nylog is applied? Is it basically a glue (like LocTite) that will permanently bond the O-ring to the fitting once it cures? I'm concerned that using this product might end up bonding everything together in a way that prevents the high pressure hose from ever coming off the condenser again without a cutoff wheel... I like the idea of a cheap fix, but if it doesn't work I don't want to end up with damaged parts that can't be salvaged to complete this repair.



-G

No it is NOT a permanent bond, the product does NOT harden. It cures to a pliable consistency....is completely compatible with O-Rings and miscible with refrigerants (so no worry if you get some in the system).

I suspect you have alignment issues with the face of the hose fitting and the condenser. There is a single cap screw holding the two parts together and the seal is dependent on proper alignment and fit of the O-Ring in the bore.

Nylog can help 'fill' any small voids. Many professionals in the A/C industry (auto and home) will use it on all fittings and shrader valve threads. Just google it and read. I've used it for decades.

Your choice. Let the techs do it 'their way' and risk having the same problem or insist they do it as I described and see if that solves your problem. Order some yourself and take it to them. They likely won't have any on hand. Dealerships are all about getting the vehicle in and out. They don't care what it costs the owner and are more than happy to do the job over and over and over (and charge you for it).

Just do it....then report back.

 

[GregLCA]

No it is NOT a permanent bond, the product does NOT harden. It cures to a pliable consistency....is completely compatible with O-Rings and miscible with refrigerants (so no worry if you get some in the system).

I suspect you have alignment issues with the face of the hose fitting and the condenser. There is a single cap screw holding the two parts together and the seal is dependent on proper alignment and fit of the O-Ring in the bore.

Nylog can help 'fill' any small voids. Many professionals in the A/C industry (auto and home) will use it on all fittings and shrader valve threads. Just google it and read. I've used it for decades.

Your choice. Let the techs do it 'their way' and risk having the same problem or insist they do it as I described and see if that solves your problem. Order some yourself and take it to them. They likely won't have any on hand. Dealerships are all about getting the vehicle in and out. They don't care what it costs the owner and are more than happy to do the job over and over and over (and charge you for it).

Just do it....then report back.

AWESOME!

Thanks for that... I actually ordered up a bottle from Amazon (it will arrive today) and will insist that the Toyota Tech do this little "experiment" prior to any of the larger parts-swapping initiatives. It will only cost us a few minutes to try and ultimately might save him money as well. If he swaps the condenser and it doesn't fix the issue he doesn't get paid for those "extra" 5 hours of labor...

Question: Assuming that the existing O-ring is already lubricated with oil, is it just a matter of spraying everything down with Brakleen or Acetone to fully clean those surfaces before applying the Nylog? I assume it's applied directly to the O-ring area (could be liberally applied if they want since it's miscible as you indicate) then everything is assembled while still wet...maybe allowing 10 minutes to set up fully before pressurizing the system?

I really like this idea. The system is considered "high pressure" but I was told maybe around 300psi... not like a braking system at 1200-1400psi... so this feels like the kind of thing that could address those small bubbles and properly fix such a minor, slow leak in the system.

Thanks again!

-G

 

[flintknapper]

AWESOME!

Thanks for that... I actually ordered up a bottle from Amazon (it will arrive today) and will insist that the Toyota Tech do this little "experiment" prior to any of the larger parts-swapping initiatives. It will only cost us a few minutes to try and ultimately might save him money as well. If he swaps the condenser and it doesn't fix the issue he doesn't get paid for those "extra" 5 hours of labor...

Question: Assuming that the existing O-ring is already lubricated with oil, is it just a matter of spraying everything down with Brakleen or Acetone to fully clean those surfaces before applying the Nylog? I assume it's applied directly to the O-ring area (could be liberally applied if they want since it's miscible as you indicate) then everything is assembled while still wet...maybe allowing 10 minutes to set up fully before pressurizing the system?

I really like this idea. The system is considered "high pressure" but I was told maybe around 300psi... not like a braking system at 1200-1400psi... so this feels like the kind of thing that could address those small bubbles and properly fix such a minor, slow leak in the system.

Thanks again!

-G

Yes, clean both surfaces. Lube O-ring with Nylog and apply a few drops to each mating surface. The parts can be assembled immediately. Wait an hour to let it cure. But you still need the new hose also. I believe IT is the source of misalignment....not your new condenser.

Since you are in Texas (as I am) you'll see some hot summertime temps and high pressure readings of about 300 psi under some conditions. So yes, not super high pressure....but plenty to cause slow leaks if connections are not properly sealed.

Have the tech make sure the alignment 'roll pin' is in place at that fitting. Every push on fitting/mating surface has a small roll pin that aligns the hose fitting and prevents it from rotating. IF not present....that is a problem too.

See roll pin example in pic below:

 

[GregLCA]

Yes, clean both surfaces. Lube O-ring with Nylog and apply a few drops to each mating surface. The parts can be assembled immediately. Wait an hour to let it cure. But you still need the new hose also. I believe IT is the source of misalignment....not your new condenser.

Since you are in Texas (as I am) you'll see some hot summertime temps and high pressure readings of about 300 psi under some conditions. So yes, not super high pressure....but plenty to cause slow leaks if connections are not properly sealed.

Have the tech make sure the alignment 'roll pin' is in place at that fitting. Every push on fitting/mating surface has a small roll pin that aligns the hose fitting and prevents it from rotating. IF not present....that is a problem too.

See roll pin example in pic below:

View attachment 3652466

To clarify: The photo you posted was just for reference...? It looks like the AC Compressor side of the hose... my leak is up on the other end nearest to the AC condenser itself. Are you saying that the upper connector has a roll pin (or two) also?

A new hose section to replace the original is around $100 IIRC, not sure why it would have suddenly gone bad spontaneously... but it's 23-years old so maybe it is just brittle or shrunk /deformed somehow with heat cycles?


-G

 

[kruisinkid]

It does not matter what industry/application, but if the seal is designed to live and die by an O ring, you better have it set perfectly the FIRST time. Even it is pinched and re-set, it will fail. If it is set pinched, it will fail. I bet anything they botched the pressure line install. If you are handy, go to a cheap AC shop, have them empty/vac the system, go home and install a new o ring yourself, take it to the shop that vac-ed it, and have them charge it. Make sure you ask for a deal since they harvested pricey refrigerant from you. Use the nylog. Aside from vac-ing and charging, the AC system is quite easy and simple.

 

[flintknapper]

To clarify: The photo you posted was just for reference...? It looks like the AC Compressor side of the hose... my leak is up on the other end nearest to the AC condenser itself. Are you saying that the upper connector has a roll pin (or two) also?

A new hose section to replace the original is around $100 IIRC, not sure why it would have suddenly gone bad spontaneously... but it's 23-years old so maybe it is just brittle or shrunk /deformed somehow with heat cycles?


-G

Yes the pic posted is for reference only (showing the roll pin). In your application....there will be just one. I recommend a new hose for two reasons.

1. Over time (with system contaminants) they can deteriorate internally.
2. A new hose will have a flat, fresh surface to engage your new condenser. IF the system has ever had moisture in it and a small leak at that area before....then the surface can be pitted/corroded.

New hose, use Nylog on a NEW (proper sized) O-ring. Don't pinch or tear the O-ring when mating the parts...and I'd wager your issue will be resolved. If you want to play around with old parts and try to just replace the O-ring....that is up to you. But how many times do you want to evacuate, pump down and recharge the system?

 

[GregLCA]

Yes the pic posted is for reference only (showing the roll pin). In your application....there will be just one. I recommend a new hose for two reasons.

1. Over time (with system contaminants) they can deteriorate internally.
2. A new hose will have a flat, fresh surface to engage your new condenser. IF the system has ever had moisture in it and a small leak at that area before....then the surface can be pitted/corroded.

New hose, use Nylog on a NEW (proper sized) O-ring. Don't pinch or tear the O-ring when mating the parts...and I'd wager your issue will be resolved. If you want to play around with old parts and try to just replace the O-ring....that is up to you. But how many times do you want to evacuate, pump down and recharge the system?

Everything you say makes a lot of sense.

Asked the Service Manager to order up the new line (does it come with a new O-Ring preinstalled?) and the Nylog should be arriving in the next couple of hours via Amazon.

-G