1KZ vs 1KD?

[adexder]

Hello there! I have been researching the various Toyota diesel engines that come with Hilux Surfs from about 2003 and under, and it seems to me that the engines I'm going to be looking for would either be the 1KZ or 1KD (In the actual car of course not just the engine).

My problem is, however, that I cannot decide which engine to go for. I have heard good things about the reliability and economy of the 1KZ-TE but I have also heard that it does not exactly have all that much power. With the 1KD 4D4 engine, I have heard that it is more powerful and handles better than the 1KZ, but that it's less reliable by a significant margin. I'm just curious if anyone knows if this is true.

After purchasing, I would probably want to put bigger tires and add an inch or two of lift to my Surf. My main purpose for it would be a bit of off roading but mostly city/hill commute, as I am still a student, and towing a roughly 1000Kg trailer, potentially long distances such as down the West Coast of North America. What kind of Toyota diesel engine should I be looking at getting?

Thanks!

 

[Vossie]

if your wanting to run bigger tyres then i would go KZ as the KD is a bit pantsless at low rpm. but of course that could be fixed with gearing.

as far as reliability on the KD, my parents prado has a 1st gen 1KD with 480,000 miles on it. only thing thats ever gone wrong on it was 1 injector failed due to the very poor condition of our diesel here in Zim. so if you keep the diesel clean then it should go forever, just like any other toyota diesel.

the KZ is great. my surf had one. loved it. but watch out for the heads, as its an indirect injection motor and so prone to getting grenaded if ever over heated. but keep it well maintained and again, bullet proof.

the KD will be more effecient than the KZ as long as ratioed and geared correctly. it will have more power, but like i said, when ive driven them (mainly SA spec Raiders and Thai Vegos) ive found them sluggish at low rpm. my parents prado is a slug off the line due to turbo lag, but once the turbo spools its an absolute beast.

 

[adexder]

if your wanting to run bigger tyres then i would go KZ as the KD is a bit pantsless at low rpm. but of course that could be fixed with gearing.

as far as reliability on the KD, my parents prado has a 1st gen 1KD with 480,000 miles on it. only thing thats ever gone wrong on it was 1 injector failed due to the very poor condition of our diesel here in Zim. so if you keep the diesel clean then it should go forever, just like any other toyota diesel.

the KZ is great. my surf had one. loved it. but watch out for the heads, as its an indirect injection motor and so prone to getting grenaded if ever over heated. but keep it well maintained and again, bullet proof.

the KD will be more effecient than the KZ as long as ratioed and geared correctly. it will have more power, but like i said, when ive driven them (mainly SA spec Raiders and Thai Vegos) ive found them sluggish at low rpm. my parents prado is a slug off the line due to turbo lag, but once the turbo spools its an absolute beast.

I wouldn't be going very big with tires. Likely only up to 31s at the absolute maximum as I want to keep as much mileage as possible.
Do you have any idea how either handles during towing? I'm planning to do a bit and I'm trying to figure out if either engine will tow up hills on a long trip without breaking something. I've heard the 4D4 holds up better but I'm not quite sure.

 

[FJ601986]

On this form i had read something about bad pistons in some of the early D4Ds but may have been limited to Europe models? Search Mud for more info. Id would also like to know which one holds up best as I like one for my 2005 Tundra......

 

[Dork]

I second the caution with the heads on the KZ-TE. I have a cousin who is going through that exact same nightmare right now, and it is not a cheap or easy fix. It cracked between the exhaust port and the coolant line so while it was still driveable, he was smoking pretty good and slowly loosing coolant.

 

[roscoFJ73]

With the 1KD 4D4 engine, I have heard that it is more powerful and handles better than the 1KZ, but that it's less reliable by a significant margin. I'm just curious if anyone knows if this is true.

as I am still a student, . What kind of Toyota diesel engine should I be looking at getting?

Thanks!

The 1KD will have more power because of its common rail injection and improved turbo.
Is there someone who has knowledge of these engines in your area? They can be very expensive in places where they are common, although repair costs to common rail fuel systems and engines have probably eased a bit.
I don't know what your budget is but typical students would be struggling if there were problems with the engine.
Some of these Japanese imports go off the road for weeks or months rather than days when they have problems.

 

[adexder]

The 1KD will have more power because of its common rail injection and improved turbo.
Is there someone who has knowledge of these engines in your area? They can be very expensive in places where they are common, although repair costs to common rail fuel systems and engines have probably eased a bit.
I don't know what your budget is but typical students would be struggling if there were problems with the engine.
Some of these Japanese imports go off the road for weeks or months rather than days when they have problems.

There are a bunch of guys in my province, and even in my general area that own Toyota diesels (such as this) as they're fairly popular due to off roading here in Canada

 

[adexder]

the KZ is great. my surf had one. loved it. but watch out for the heads, as its an indirect injection motor and so prone to getting grenaded if ever over heated. but keep it well maintained and again, bullet proof.

the KD will be more effecient than the KZ as long as ratioed and geared correctly. it will have more power, but like i said, when ive driven them (mainly SA spec Raiders and Thai Vegos) ive found them sluggish at low rpm. my parents prado is a slug off the line due to turbo lag, but once the turbo spools its an absolute beast.

I've heard really good things about the KD. As for the KZ Surf though, any idea what kind of load on the engine I would be looking at if I'm towing a light trailer? I just don't want to buy and maintain a KZ Surf only to have it nuke itself 1000KM from home

 

[Vossie]

I wouldn't be going very big with tires. Likely only up to 31s at the absolute maximum as I want to keep as much mileage as possible.
Do you have any idea how either handles during towing? I'm planning to do a bit and I'm trying to figure out if either engine will tow up hills on a long trip without breaking something. I've heard the 4D4 holds up better but I'm not quite sure.

I've heard really good things about the KD. As for the KZ Surf though, any idea what kind of load on the engine I would be looking at if I'm towing a light trailer? I just don't want to buy and maintain a KZ Surf only to have it nuke itself 1000KM from home

dont worry about that. my first trip in my KZ was into the Zambezi vallley towing a boat loaded up, about a 1.2 ton load. (metric) no problems what so ever. only thing is my fuel consumption went from 7kms/L to about 6kms/L whilst towing.

both the KD and the KZ are great motors. both are reliable and both are long lasting. the key is to get one that has been well maintained, as both have the propensity to go wrong, like any engine, when not looked after. \

the KZ is dumber, but a little stronger for it. you'll get about 7-9kms/L depending on gearbox/diff/tyre ratios.
the KD is smarter, and more powerful and economic for it. you'll get about 9-14kms/L depending on gearbox/diff/tyre ratios and which generation you have. the VN turbos are very economical. drove my uncles one to Victoria falls and back (2000kms) and averaged 13kms/L with the cruise control set to 120KmH

 

[adexder]

dont worry about that. my first trip in my KZ was into the Zambezi vallley towing a boat loaded up, about a 1.2 ton load. (metric) no problems what so ever. only thing is my fuel consumption went from 7kms/L to about 6kms/L whilst towing.

both the KD and the KZ are great motors. both are reliable and both are long lasting. the key is to get one that has been well maintained, as both have the propensity to go wrong, like any engine, when not looked after. \

the KZ is dumber, but a little stronger for it. you'll get about 7-9kms/L depending on gearbox/diff/tyre ratios.
the KD is smarter, and more powerful and economic for it. you'll get about 9-14kms/L depending on gearbox/diff/tyre ratios and which generation you have. the VN turbos are very economical. drove my uncles one to Victoria falls and back (2000kms) and averaged 13kms/L with the cruise control set to 120KmH

My main concern with towing is going up hills. Here in Canada there are many steep grade slopes I would have to tow up and down so I'm just worried that the KZ would kill itself overheating or something going up these. I would straight up get a KZ if otherwise, as I really like the surfs, but I may just have to get a Land cruiser if I can't find an alternative diesel Surf.

 

[Vossie]

My main concern with towing is going up hills. Here in Canada there are many steep grade slopes I would have to tow up and down so I'm just worried that the KZ would kill itself overheating or something going up these. I would straight up get a KZ if otherwise, as I really like the surfs, but I may just have to get a Land cruiser if I can't find an alternative diesel Surf.

run coolant, make sure everything is as it should and you wont have a problem, even up steep grades. you may go a little slower, but the engine will be fine with it

 

[77cruiser77]

Get an HDJ81. The earlier ones are much cheaper and feature the 4.2L 1HD-T. You're probably going to want factory turbo and direct injection for your application. HJ61 would be a great option too but seem to be more expensive than an 80 these days.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

My recommendation if you plan to tow is to avoid turbo indirect injection. They all get hot not matter what. It's a function of the design. Stick with a direct injection motor. So I'd say go with the 1KD over 1KZ for sure. More efficient and cooler engine. Will handle BC mountains way better.

 

[IanB]

And bypass the factory trans cooler for an aftermarket one, it will help the trans deal with the heat of towing in the mountains, and eliminate the possibility of the "pink milkshake" trans cooler/rad failure issues on the 3rd gens.