1HDT HDJ81 Misfire

[mudgudgeon]

The FSM used to be available on here, but I just went to look for it so I could link it and is link is broken.

PM your email address if you want the 1hdt FSM

 

[ubguessin]

I have the FSM, just having trouble finding the page that talks on fueling adjustment

 

[ubguessin]

Well I went out this morning to start her up and heard a ping. Then smoke started to roll out of the manifold.

 

[Rock40]

The manifold is a 2 piece design and it looks like the smoke is coming from that union, could be that it's worn or damaged. That's quite a bit of smoke tho...

 

[ubguessin]

The manifold is a 2 piece design and it looks like the smoke is coming from that union, could be that it's worn or damaged. That's quite a bit of smoke tho...

I heard a ping and clatter/knocking on startup. like something fell into a cylinder. Thats when smoke started to roll through the manifold. Judging by the high EGT's and that the pump was cranked up just to make it run. My money is on a melted piston, or a piece broke off an injector or valve.

 

[roscoFJ73]

My money is on a melted piston, or a piece broke off an injector or valve.

Melted pistons and bits of metal in diesel combustion chambers are nasty. I think it would be running really bad if that was the case.
Although the noise you heard is worrisome.
That loose manifold joint is probably the slapping noise you heard.

I have the FSM, just having trouble finding the page that talks on fueling adjustment

From memory it is at the end of the pump rebuild section.

 

[ubguessin]

Melted pistons and bits of metal in diesel combustion chambers are nasty. I think it would be running really bad if that was the case.
Although the noise you heard is worrisome.
That loose manifold joint is probably the slapping noise you heard.



From memory it is at the end of the pump rebuild section.

The slapping noise is coming through the exhaust you cannot hear it in the engine bay. Just at the tail pipe. Its similar to a gas back fire sometimes.

I made the adjustments on the IP pump by turning the fuel screw out for less fueling and get no throttle response. So then when you turn the fuel back up you get throttle response.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

If it's blowing black smoke at 22:1 and the engine has decent compression, either they are making up the afrs, or pump timing is way off, injector spray pattern is horrendous or the injector has the incorrect washers under it meaning it doesn't spray correctly into the bowl in the piston. I would diagnose with the cheapest stuff first -

1) make sure fuel and air filters are in decent condition as a start, don't think this is your problem but easy to eliminate. Quick visual for air leaks at this point would be a good idea too, can you replace fuel line from primer to IP with clear to see if it's full of air.

2) compression test, you'll need to remove the injectors for this on an FT so ensure you have the correct washers to replace and you eliminate this variable while you're at it.

3) check timing, it is my bet that this is stupidly retarded, giving high EGTs and black smoke because the fuel isn't being burnt properly, and in my experience this makes the engine doughy in the response department.

Something doesn't ring true here with what the shop is saying, but don't go chasing cracked pistons and other internal trauma yet, rule out things this shop touched first

EDIT - this is a 1HDT, so compression test would be done thru glow plug holes but I would be replacing injector washers at this point anyway, with known correct ones.

 

[ubguessin]

If it's blowing black smoke at 22:1 and the engine has decent compression, either they are making up the afrs, or pump timing is way off, injector spray pattern is horrendous or the injector has the incorrect washers under it meaning it doesn't spray correctly into the bowl in the piston. I would diagnose with the cheapest stuff first -

1) make sure fuel and air filters are in decent condition as a start, don't think this is your problem but easy to eliminate. Quick visual for air leaks at this point would be a good idea too, can you replace fuel line from primer to IP with clear to see if it's full of air.

2) compression test, you'll need to remove the injectors for this on an FT so ensure you have the correct washers to replace and you eliminate this variable while you're at it.

3) check timing, it is my bet that this is stupidly retarded, giving high EGTs and black smoke because the fuel isn't being burnt properly, and in my experience this makes the engine doughy in the response department.

Something doesn't ring true here with what the shop is saying, but don't go chasing cracked pistons and other internal trauma yet, rule out things this shop touched first.

1. I have brand new filters all around. I have done the clear line and have no air in the lines.

2. Have yet to do my own compression test. Was told the shop performed one and each cylinder proved within spec. I need to get the equipment to perform this myself.

3. I have doubts that the timing is retarded because the gaps on the bolt holes of the pump are nearly maxed out with the pump rotated closer to the engine block which would make the pump advanced. I know I will need to confirm this with the service tool, but visually appears to be advanced.

I believe that the shop has lied about multiple things about this repair. I am worried to continue to try and run this engine because of what happend this morning on start up, a knocking noise happened for a about 3 seconds and then the smoke started to come out of the manifold. What I do not understand is why when I reduce the fueling with the fuel screw do I not get any throttle response? Turn the screw back in and I get throttle response but is laggy.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

1. I have brand new filters all around. I have done the clear line and have no air in the lines.

2. Have yet to do my own compression test. Was told the shop performed one and each cylinder proved within spec. I need to get the equipment to perform this myself.

3. I have doubts that the timing is retarded because the gaps on the bolt holes of the pump are nearly maxed out with the pump rotated closer to the engine block which would make the pump advanced. I know I will need to confirm this with the service tool, but visually appears to be advanced.

I believe that the shop has lied about multiple things about this repair. I am worried to continue to try and run this engine because of what happend this morning on start up, a knocking noise happened for a about 3 seconds and then the smoke started to come out of the manifold. What I do not understand is why when I reduce the fueling with the fuel screw do I not get any throttle response? Turn the screw back in and I get throttle response but is laggy.

Laggy throttle is generally a sign of retarded timing however I did have a mate with a Nissan TD42 that was so advanced it was an absolute dog, but that was obscenely advanced, ie 1.3mm lift when spec was .75 or something like that. I think what was happening was that the piston coming up put the fire out again but no idea if that's possible, but it would have to be very advanced to make that happen. I'm sorry to say the TD42 in question broke conrods a few months after so hopefully your engine hasn't run long enough if it's so far advanced to cause damage.

Have you got any recourse on the shop?

 

[ubguessin]

Laggy throttle is generally a sign of retarded timing however I did have a mate with a Nissan TD42 that was so advanced it was an absolute dog, but that was obscenely advanced, ie 1.3mm lift when spec was .75 or something like that. I think what was happening was that the piston coming up put the fire out again but no idea if that's possible, but it would have to be very advanced to make that happen. I'm sorry to say the TD42 in question broke conrods a few months after so hopefully your engine hasn't run long enough if it's so far advanced to cause damage.

Have you got any recourse on the shop?

When I mean laggy throttle with the fuel screw its basically non existent when I turn the fueling down like in one of my previous videos earlier in the chat where you push the throttle and nothing happens. but once I turn the fuel screw back in I get throttle response.

I am getting into contact with some lawyers one for a lemon law and the other for this shops work.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

When I mean laggy throttle with the fuel screw its basically non existent when I turn the fueling down like in one of my previous videos earlier in the chat where you push the throttle and nothing happens. but once I turn the fuel screw back in I get throttle response.

I am getting into contact with some lawyers one for a lemon law and the other for this shops work.

I don't know that your truck is a lemon, unless it's always had these problems, I think the poor truck just needs a bit of competent work. I honestly struggle to understand why diesel places over there find the Toyota diesels so hard to get right but I also realise we're probably spoiled with access to the likes of Gturbo, ADS, Diesels Unlimited etc over here that make their living on tricked up diesels.

 

[Rock40]

You probably already know this but just so it’s been said......timing the IP is extremely precise. It’s frankly not at all like advancing or retarding gas engine timing with a distributor. A very small movement/rotation of the IP will net a HUGE overall timing change. That’s why the correct tool is required to get it anywhere near correct spec. If your IP is maxed out of adjustment it’s probably not even in the right ballpark for timing. Mine is about in the middle of the range, slightly slightly advanced past spec

Owning a Toyota diesel in NA means that you either have exceptionally deep pockets and an unusually skilled mechanic nearby or you learn to sort this stuff out yourself, follow the FSM and do your own work. It sucks and it’s the biggest challenge to actually owning one here

 

[ubguessin]

I don't know that your truck is a lemon, unless it's always had these problems, I think the poor truck just needs a bit of competent work. I honestly struggle to understand why diesel places over there find the Toyota diesels so hard to get right but I also realise we're probably spoiled with access to the likes of Gturbo, ADS, Diesels Unlimited etc over here that make their living on tricked up diesels.

Well I bought the truck a year ago. After about 5k miles was when the truck started to exhibit fueling troubles w/ heavy haze and eye burning fumes. Once I elected to have the injectors and pump work done is when the problems got worse.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

Well I bought the truck a year ago. After about 5k miles was when the truck started to exhibit fueling troubles w/ heavy haze and eye burning fumes. Once I elected to have the injectors and pump work done is when the problems got worse.

Hmm, OK. An old school diesel will never be virtually odour free like a new diesel with DPF, SCR and all that stuff, but it should be tolerable and visibly clean in the daytime and you'd expect to see a haze in the headlights of cars behind at night time.

 

[ubguessin]

Hmm, OK. An old school diesel will never be virtually odour free like a new diesel with DPF, SCR and all that stuff, but it should be tolerable and visibly clean in the daytime and you'd expect to see a haze in the headlights of cars behind at night time.

100% agree w/ that and that is why I know mine is pretty bad when the haze is visible in the daytime before I started this repair and is now worse after the repair. I have owned a couple previous diesels, Chevy 6.5, Ford 7.3, VW 1.9, they never had issues like this.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

100% agree w/ that and that is why I know mine is pretty bad when the haze is visible in the daytime before I started this repair and is now worse after the repair. I have owned a couple previous diesels, Chevy 6.5, Ford 7.3, VW 1.9, they never had issues like this.

Yeah, and typically the first port of call for haze/smoke would be injectors, but you've tried that and seems that it's only created more dramas!

 

[roscoFJ73]

I don't know that your truck is a lemon, unless it's always had these problems, I think the poor truck just needs a bit of competent work. I honestly struggle to understand why diesel places over there find the Toyota diesels so hard to get right but I also realise we're probably spoiled with access to the likes of Gturbo, ADS, Diesels Unlimited etc over here that make their living on tricked up diesels.

I tend to agree calling it a lemon is premature. @ubguessin , good idea about not driving it. You could remove the exhaust manifold and have a look . There is about 5 bits in there. You need 2x rings 17151-17010 and 2 of these Standard part 96732-24042 . There is also a collar, I dont know if you will need it 1x 17183-17010

I was in Perth diesel workshop a few years ago. Someone had dumped a Russian or Czech made injection pump he had never seen before, he just said" I ll sort it out" and he did. It turned out it was a copy of another pump and he was able to use parts and his own knowhow to rebuild it

 

[AussieHJCruza]

@ubguessin if you want assistance with logistics this side of the pond if you decide to take the plunge and get something sent over here, let me know - glad to help how I can...I miss my HDJ80 every day

 

[SNLC]

Spec is 1.25 to 1.35mm so you are within the factory limits

View attachment 2293478

Ya my bad, for some reason I was thinking 1.25mm was the high side. Don’t time 1HDTs often so don’t have it memorized.

Note the 1999+ 1HZ.

Cheers