13bt to 22re question

[flyin phil]

So I'm thinking of down..no up...no...lateral-grading my daily driver from a BJ74 to a 4runner. I figure if I can gain some insight anywhere, it'll be on 'MUD.


Regarding the engines... I like simple, I like reliable, I handle slow better than most. I'm leaning heavily towards a 22re. The only reason I'd consider a 3.o is that a cheap BHG specimen would make a good candidate for a 3.4 swap. The 13bt in my current cruiser is rated at 120hp, and gives me about 24mpg on 35s. It's far from fast, but I'm perfectly happy with its performance level. I'm assuming first gen 4runners are a fair bit lighter than than a 74 series cruiser with that heavy drivetrain, so I'm hoping a 22re will match the performance of the I-4 turbo diesel, even though I know economy will likely suffer some. Anyone by chance in a position to offer a comparison? The obvious answer would be to simply go drive one, but I won't be buying until after the sale so the timing's a little off...

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

The only way to get 24 mpg out of a 22RE is to keep the truck close to stock, and drive it real easy... You're gonna miss the torque real bad though... Stock they peaked out below 150 ft/lbs I think. 22RE is pretty simple to work on, the self diagnostic system is very handy. I love mine, but I would not hesitate to get a 13BT 70 series cruiser if the chance came along...

 

[Hilux]

The 13bt in my current cruiser is rated at 120hp, and gives me about 24mpg on 35s.

Speedometer corrected?

You know, a cool thing sometimes is when you need help... Say for instance you needed somebody to hunt you down a part, or help you work on your truck... Thing is, nobody's gonna beg you to find out where you are...

I'm assuming first gen 4runners are a fair bit lighter than than a 74 series cruiser with that heavy drivetrain,

It might be the Lj70 I'm thinking of, but it's got 8" diffs... I can't see why you've got a shorter rig and it's heavier b/c the diffs are bigger?

so I'm hoping a 22re will match the performance of the I-4 turbo diesel, even though I know economy will likely suffer some.

Some? Try half... Diesels IMO come closer to having x2 the torque and x2 the MPG of a krappy gassy of equal size... That may not be exact, but IME it's dang close for a fast guesstimate.

If you've got 35's on the stock gearing, no doubt you've got the torque for it, but IMO your acceleration will suffer...

Open that bad boy up and you'll prolly see more MPG and noticeably more POWA!!!

Forget the 3.0/ 3.4 IMO... Unless you want 12 to 15MPG?



Sorry, couldnt resist!

 

[flyin phil]

Based on numbers I was hoping it wouldn't be too bad, but that doesn't always translate to seat of the pants feel.

Speedometer corrected?

Yes, as per GPS. Uncorrected #s are significantly lower, of course, on 35s. My speedo's off by almost 30%, odometer slightly less.

It might be the Lj70 I'm thinking of, but it's got 8" diffs... I can't see why you've got a shorter rig and it's heavier b/c the diffs are bigger?

Yeah, big difference between the LJ and BJ. 9.25" diffs, h55 tranny, bigger tcase, pto winch, the 13bt is close to 900 pounds itself. dual batteries for the 24 volt system etc. WB is still 105", so length is comparable to a 4Runner.

I've got a full 85 toyota PU drivetrain in my samurai, and that stuff's way smaller than the LC gear.

Some? Try half... Diesels IMO come closer to having x2 the torque and x2 the MPG... That may not be exact, but IME it's dang close for a fast guesstimate.

If you've got 35's on the stock gearing, no doubt you've got the torque for it, but IMO your acceleration will suffer...

This engine, stock, is rated at a little over 200 lb/ft at 2000rpm. Not much considering it weighs almost as much as a cummins engine

Acceleration is down a little with the 35s, but overall it drives much nicer. I was always looking for 6th gear on 31s on the highway, and the almost 5:1 first gear was hardly enough to cross a lane of traffic. I launched in 2nd anytime except an uphill. 5th gear gives a comfortable un-strained cruise anywhere from 100-120 kph now, and mileage was virtually unaffected.

 

[Hilux]

Just off the top of my head I'd say it'd be a lot harder to put a 13bt into a 4Runner than just replace the Fj axles and tranny with the Hilux/Bundera axles and tranny...

But the cool thing at least IMO, would be the more interior room a 4Runner would give you. What we need to do is find the curb weights of the two and compare.

Is your 4Runner IFS or SFA? And you're killing me here because I'd LOVE to put a 13bt in something... The only thing I can think of harder to get here than a 13bt, would be a Bj73!


Welcome to Mud, Phil... <= welcome BTW

 

[flyin phil]

Just off the top of my head I'd say it'd be a lot harder to put a 13bt into a 4Runner than just replace the Fj axles and tranny with the Hilux/Bundera axles and tranny

I have no intention of swapping a 13bt into a 4runner. If I was going to do that much work and gain that much weight, I'd be looking for a lot more than 120hp to justify the swap. I was just looking for a comparison because my 74 is the closest thing to a 'runner I've driven. 13bts aren't too hard to come by if you don't mind the $$ (last I remember seeing them for sale was around 5-6000 just for an engine, if memory serves)

Is your 4Runner IFS or SFA?

I don't actually have a 4runner. I was considering selling my cruiser and buying one. I'd be looking for an IFS truck, to experiment with a LT setup. I've built SFA trucks on everything from leaf springs to linked w/coilovers, and wanted to give a long travel IFS setup a run to see how it compared, and to be able to pick up the pace a little through the rough stuff.

 

[13bt]

I really think you need to stay with the bj. I made the mistake of selling mine and I still havent been able to find a decent specimen to replace it.

If you get a 4runner you KNOW your gonna put bigger tires on it (atleast 33's im sure) so once you wheel that you blow everything up, your gonna get around 18mpg if your nice and your gonna have a 4runner...nothing special unlike the bj74

Keep the bj or you will regret it I can tell you first hand. The only things that bothered my when I had mine was parts availiblity/price, rust and the RHD got annoying fairly quickly.

I did a 3.4 swap on my first 4runner, AWSOME engine...somewhat thirsty though. The wiring is sort of a PITA too...

But honestly the 22re is a good engine, as long as its geared for the right tires. I have 5.29s in my truck with the 35's is has just as much power as the bj74 I had.

 

[13bt]

lol btw your bj74 dosnt happen to be for sale on craigslist vancouver does it?

 

[Rigpig]

interesting! I'm actually doing the exact opposite right now, swapping a 3B/turbo into an '88Runner with 60 series axles. We've got different objectives i guess, but if you decide to sell that '74 let me know. If you think the 13bt is slow, you'll stick a fork in your eye once you get into that 22RE. Terrible on fuel, and nowhere near the torque the 3B/13BT have. Anyhow, here's mine and looking forward to seeing what you do for a swap.
Cheers!
https://forum.ih8mud.com/ca-bc-vancouver-island-cruisers/356766-4skinner-re-power.html

 

[Devils Paw 80]

I think the 22RE would be more comparable to a 3B, so slower than your turbo. Of course it's a great engine but so is the diesel. If you were planning to do anything other than mild offroading with your daily driver Runner, I think you'd be better off sticking with the BJ's solid axles. 1st gen have only two doors, so what are you gaining? A little bit of storage space? A 2nd gen 4 door for family needs is another story.

 

[cavemancaleb]

ive got a 22re pickup ill trade ya straigt across

 

[flyin phil]

I really think you need to stay with the bj. ...The only things that bothered my when I had mine was parts availiblity/price, rust and the RHD got annoying fairly quickly.
...
But honestly the 22re is a good engine, as long as its geared for the right tires. I have 5.29s in my truck with the 35's is has just as much power as the bj74 I had.

Thanks, glad to hear from someone who's driven both. And yeah, those are the main downsides to the JDM cars, luckily the cruisers don't need parts often. The RHD is kind of inconvenient. I really don't mind driving from that side, but drive-thrus, ticket dispensers, key-pads, toll booths etc are a bit of a hassle, and there's less room for your clutch foot with the tunnel there..can't stretch out. That matters on long drives when you're 6'4"

lol btw your bj74 dosnt happen to be for sale on craigslist vancouver does it?

It does indeed.

interesting! I'm actually doing the exact opposite right now, swapping a 3B/turbo into an '88Runner with 60 series axles. We've got different objectives i guess, but if you decide to sell that '74 let me know.

I'm not sure I'd call selling a cruiser and buying a 4runner quite the opposite of a 3b repower in a mini, but regardless, my 74's already posted for sale, as 13bt pointed out above. I'm starting to have some second thoughts though...
Good luck with your build, looks good.

1st gen have only two doors, so what are you gaining? A little bit of storage space?

Left hand drive, easy/cheap parts access, and IFS. Plus a north american mini is about a quarter the price of a cruiser. So either a handful of cash, or a long travel IFS setup, deavers or coilovers in the rear, geared double cases, and a locker or two, all for the price of a relatively stock cruiser. The biggest downside is the engine difference.

 

[13bt]

hehe I emailed you about the bj, too bad it isnt going to work out. Thats an awsome looking rig minus the bit of rot around the rear, I say keep it! Sell the frickin sammi dude!

I really gotta say it again, the 4runners are literally everywhere. You can always find one and buy and sell and trade them etc. etc. I remeber emailing an exporter over in japan regarding a bj74. He said they are even getting hard to find there now, its all hzj73's etc. So if they are rare there what are they here?

me being 6'4 too I can honestly say that I have never had more room over my head then in my b74....plus those suspension seats rock!

 

[Tigerstripe40]

I've been pretty happy with the 3.Slow in my 4Runner.
I did rebuild it a few years ago, and had the motors issues addressed (fixed the thing water jacket problem, ported and polished the heads, some cams that should have come in the truck stock).

Around town I get 17-18mpg pretty consistantly. The truck runs stock 31" tires. Though since I replaced the rear axle bearing, I've been getting slightly better MPG's. synthetic motor oil also netted a slight increase in mpgs. With the new rear axle bearing and synthetic in the crankcase, I figure I should get about 20mpg.

 

[Devils Paw 80]

The only reason I'd consider a 3.o is that a cheap BHG specimen would make a good candidate for a 3.4 swap.... I'm assuming first gen 4runners are a fair bit lighter than than a 74 series cruiser with that heavy drivetrain, so I'm hoping a 22re will match the performance of the I-4 turbo diesel, ...

Forget an engine swap if you're looking to come out ahead on the cost factor. I think the 1st gen 4runner is around 3500+ pounds. My Bj70 was around 4100 lbs.

Hilux, nice 70! Who's the lucky owner?