Steering/braking wobble only when loaded, checked everything?

[CO_Hunter]

So I have checked and searched to no avail. Steering wheel wobbles, at times quite a bit when loaded with family and M416 with camping gear. No brake pedal feedback at all. Seems worse downhill braking. It does pull to the left on braking loaded and unloaded. No steering wheel wobble on hard braking with no trailer or gear.

What I have done:

About 20,000 miles ago new Toyota rotors, pads (100 series), bearings and all new trunnion bearings as well. About the same time I went with the OME 2.5" lift. All was great after that.

Since then changed the right front brake hose to the caliper, about 5,000 miles ago. That is when I first started noticing the problem, may be unrelated. I have bleed the line several times. Has slowly gotten worse.

Tires have been rebalanced

Checked the rotors, both sides, with mic and there is little runout, about .002"

Checked bearings by jacking the vehicle and pulling from top/bottom as well as sides.

Caliper bolts are tight, no leaks

Master cylinder, no leaks

Knuckle bolts are tight

Everything else looks visually ok

Aside from replacing the caliper any ideas what else it could be?

BTW, this is what I was chasing when I notice my knuckles dripping (another thread)

 

[cool breeze]

just thinking out loud:
all bushings within front end
panhard
relay rod
TRE's

did you go every every bolt with a tq wrench to specs?

 

[CO_Hunter]

I didn't check the torque, just for looseness, tie rods by moving the wheel at 9/3. For the panhard, is it simply checking for loose attaching bolts?

I'll be in there starting tomorrow to replace inner axle seals and I can check the torque on those components and I'll check the trunnion bearings per LandTanks thread.

Any other ideas?

 

[Pinetop Cruiser]

Interesting thread. I was just about to ask for some ideas on my identical problem that started after my front axle job + new rotors and 100 pads. I've since replaced all TREs, front panhard and front control arm bushings. These helped make the wobble not get as much out of control, but are just masking the real problem. Wondering if I warped the rotors when trying to follow procedure listed here on mud for bedding them in? But like you can feel no pedal feedback. So why does it only happen on braking? At first it only happened when braking downhill.

 

[CO_Hunter]

Ok, so I don't have the torque specs but checked everything for looseness and found none. Plus put the wrench on all the tie rods and panhard bolts. They are tight.

One knuckle bolt on the right side was slightly loose, maybe 1/16 of a turn before torque was reached, all other knuckle bolts clicked the torque wrench.

So any other ideas? I'm guessing the caliper is causing the pulling, but the wobble?

Guys, I'm floundering here...

 

[calstyl2]

Fish scale your knuckles for proper tightness, had same issue and it was knuckle bearings.

 

[rockytop]

check wheel alignment!

 

[CO_Hunter]

Fish scale your knuckles for proper tightness, had same issue and it was knuckle bearings.

I'll try to get to that tonight. Need to get tie rod/pitman puller.

check wheel alignment!

I was thinking about that but the problem is only noticeable while loaded so it didn't go there right away. Maybe after it's back together I should get it on a rack.

 

[CO_Hunter]

Fish scale your knuckles for proper tightness, had same issue and it was knuckle bearings.

Got it checked out tonight. Each side was 10#, top end of spec. I lost a little bit of grease on each rod end but I think they should be fine.

I guess I'm down to brake caliper, rebuild or buy rebuilt. I'll look into it closer tomorrow night.

 

[redshiftquasars]

Was in your shoes up until 11:30 this evening. I got home and wanted to get rid of the wobbles and it just so happens that my new set of rotors and pads had arrived.
Here's some background first:
It started out where I would only feel the steering wheel shake when braking hard then it started becoming noticeable when braking while going down hill and also while loaded. I ran through the landtank faq, check the 3 and 9(nothing), check the 12 and 6(nothing), did the stop with e-brake test(nothing) and really didn't think it could be my rotors since they had been changed at the dealer 20k miles ago. Well sure as sh*t after changing the rotors and pads this eve, I took it for a spin and the wobbles were gone.

 

[sleeoffroad]

What is your alignment specs. What do you have for caster correction? When loaded the caster will change and that might be what is causing it.

Check your steering box. Make sure the bolts are tight and you don't have cracks on the frame. Also check the TRE with a prybar and make sure when you pry up on them they do not have excessive play. Don't just check this by moving the wheel. In other words, make sure the ball joint part of the TRE is still OK.

 

[CO_Hunter]

What is your alignment specs. What do you have for caster correction? When loaded the caster will change and that might be what is causing it.

I haven't had it on the rack yet so I don't know what it currently is. I actually got the OME 2.5 suspension kit from you Christo. I bought the LX in Denver and drove straight over to your shop. We chatted a bit and settled on the spring configuration I got. This was almost 2 years ago. Don't you remember . Anyhow I got the yellow bushings and installed them using a jig. The caster should be 2-4 if I recall correctly, the toe I don't recall off hand. Would more weight in the back, lightening the front, cause less caster up front?

Check your steering box. Make sure the bolts are tight and you don't have cracks on the frame. Also check the TRE with a prybar and make sure when you pry up on them they do not have excessive play. Don't just check this by moving the wheel. In other words, make sure the ball joint part of the TRE is still OK.

Checked the TRE like you suggested and didn't feel any play. Still need to look over the steering box and frame eek. Anywhere on the frame in particular, front I'm guessing?

Thanks for the feedback guys.

 

[CO_Hunter]

Checked the steering box bolts and gave the frame a look over. All ok. Didn't get to looking over the caliper real close. But I have decided to rebuild the front calipers anyway and I have a pressure bleeder kit on the way. I'm planning on a complete system flush while I'm at it, but won't being doing any work tomorrow...

Funny side story. I asked my wife to go to the Lexus dealership and get copies of the relevant FSM pages for caliper rebuild (pretty basic by the way) and bleeding. I found the local Lexus service folks readily print me out pages for whatever I need, while the Toyota place won't. Apparently the service guy and service manager tried to talk her out of anyone rebulding calipers because it is too involved and they just replace them. They gave her the pages anyway.

Interestingly the bleed write up makes no mention of the LSPV. A vague reference to a bypass is made at the front of the section, I'll research that.

 

[sleeoffroad]

I haven't had it on the rack yet so I don't know what it currently is. I actually got the OME 2.5 suspension kit from you Christo. I bought the LX in Denver and drove straight over to your shop. We chatted a bit and settled on the spring configuration I got. This was almost 2 years ago. Don't you remember .

Catch is we do not do the orders under screen names, so I can't correlate the mud posts with customer names. Maybe we should.

 

[CO_Hunter]

Results

I finally got to test things out this weekend, blackpowder shoot and campout near Victor, windy steep roads. This is the place the braking wobble got bad a few weeks ago. It seems as the front caliper rebuilds did the trick. Same vehicle/trailer loads and roads and no hint of the wobble. The pulling to the left seems to be gone but the times I did notice some I'm guessing it must be the road. So now I have no plans on checking the alignment, seems unnecessary at this point. Thanks for all the ideas and input.

Christo, didn't expect you to remember, just poking fun

The only outstanding thing now is the brake pedal seems to have a longer throw before engaging. Did the proper FSM bleed and more, numerous times, details in this thread on our club page if anyone wants to see my ordeal.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/co-colorad...have-defeated-me-stealership.html#post5762087