Heavy Duty Flasher upgrade

landtank · 05-11-05, 02:04 PM

A while back I installed a Kaymar bumper and wired the turn signal lights up. Everything was fine until my first trip out with the trailer, I blew the converter on the signal side. So I replaced the converter and unplugged the lights. I suspected the flasher might not be up to providing enough current to operate the additional lights.

A little back ground: The stock replacement flasher is an EP25. This is rated 2/4 which means 2 signal 4 flashing. The plugin upgrade is an EP36 which is rated 3/6 which is 3 signal and 6 flashing.

Now I have:

2 dash
2 front truck
2 front bumper
2 rear truck
2 rear bumper
2 trailer
____
12 total bulbs

Slightly more than what either flasher is rated for. Our stock unit is a 3 prong ISO configuration however it is not compatable with the heavy duty 3 prong flasher commonly available. The reason is that our configuration is a B-battery, E-Ground and L-load configuration and the heavy duty is a X-battery, P-pilot (panel) and L-Load configuration. Plugging in the heavy duty flasher will result in shorting the 12v line to ground and blowing the fuse.

So the obvious upgrade is to a 2 pin ISO flasher which is X- 12v and L- Load. However the wiring at the socket is 180 deg out from that of the heavy duty flasher. So you'll need to swap the E- Gropund wire with that of the B- 12v one.

Attached is the relay block removed from the truck

landtank · 05-11-05, 02:08 PM

In the first picture you'll see the layout of the socket from the flasher side. What is needed is to swap the wires in the B and E positions with each other.

First you will need to pry up and remove the white locking tab from the front of the socket. Once this is done you can then use a small blade screw driver to release the locking tab of the connector and remove the wires. Once both wires are removed simply reinsert tham in the opposite position.

The pictures show the original wiring from the rear and the locking tab that needs to be removed.

Brentbba · 05-11-05, 02:13 PM

Interesting. Two front bumper?? ARB up front? We're otherwise set up the same. Two front, two dash, two rear truck, two rear bumper, two trailer.

Did the scout trip thing a couple of weeks ago with new Kaymar all wired up, stock flasher unit. No problems at all.

I'd done the rewiring on the trailer connector, Kaymar bumper lights, etc. and had no issues at all on the trip. I always saftey check the trailer lights before every trip and again if I unhook the trailer.

Curious - did you blow a fuse leading to wanting/needing the heavy duty flasher.

landtank · 05-11-05, 02:13 PM

I selected a Grotes flasher from an online company that is able to handle the 12 bulbs that I may be running. There are others available that are rated for even more bulbs and all of them can work properly with as few as a single as they are electronic flashers. Now when plugging in the 2 pin flasher it will either work or it won't, no damage will occur if it is plugged in wrong.

landtank · 05-11-05, 02:18 PM

Now technically the stock flasher is an EP34. An EP34 has it's 12v and Ground pins reversed from that of an EP35/36. Toyota gets around this by placing a jumper on the flasher with a socket to reverse the polarity. So if you remove that jumper and additional socket it can be used as a spare. Once this wiring change has been made the listed flashers WILL NOT WORK. The new common replacement would be the EP34.

The attached pictures show the stock flasher and what to remove.

landtank · 05-11-05, 02:26 PM

Brent I blew the converter when I towed the trailer the first time. I thought maybe it was do to not getting enough amps through the stock flasher so I disconnected the Kaymar lights when I replaced the converter. The front ARB lights have yet to be installed because of wanting the proper rated flasher in the truck before doing those.

On the side of the stock flasher it clearly staes "4 bulbs maximum", "27w maximum"

Those converters are damn expensive and this was just to get all my ducks in a row before attaching more lights.

Incidently if you were to exceed the flashers capacity you would likely burn something out rather than blow a fuse as it would limit the current draw through the fuse until it burned out and then blow the fuse.

Brentbba · 05-11-05, 03:04 PM

What trailer light converter are you using? I've got the Hoppy that I connected directly to that 'extra' harness Kaymar provides for trailer wiring with the 5 std wires. Did by just using butt connectors that I weatherproofed with shrink tubing. Converter is just tucked up behind the rear bumper. Cut off the molex connectors that had been on the converter to do this. Is your's wired differently? If so, wonder if that's why I didn't fry anything last month towing.

Going on a much longer trip with trailer this weekend. If I blow something, I'll reread this thread with much more interest!

landtank · 05-11-05, 03:41 PM

I've got one from NAPA that plugs into the light harness behind the PS rear side panel and a single wire that goes over to the DS rear panel. Same layout as the factory one.

nakman · 05-11-05, 05:42 PM

I've got the same setup as Brent. ARB in front, Kaymar, using the upgraded flasher, forget which one but it's buried in one of the other Kaymar wiring posts. But I haven't been able to get the trailer brake lights to work, all I've done is hook into the Kaymar wires.. is there some other deal that I need to hook up back there? At any rate, went to Moab & back pulling the popup, no problems.

landtank · 05-11-05, 06:17 PM

This wasn't about solving a problem, it was making sure it was done correctly. After burning out the original converter I looked into flasher circuits to understand what should be done. Search on EP36 and you'll see that the old thread references that as the upgraded flasher. Now do some research on the web and you'll find out that it is designed for 6 total bulbs.

With a lot of people piling on the bulbs in the directional circuit I thought I'd share my finding and how to install a heavy duty flasher in the truck.

Brentbba · 05-12-05, 11:14 AM

Nak - wish list still has an ARB front for me. I've still got stock bumpers. If you've not run your trailer wiring thru a converter, that may be why you are having issues. YOu can't just go from the Kaymar wires on their harness directly to your trailer plug. You do have to use a converter. Took me awhile to figure that out after staring at the wiring diagram from the 7-pin plug and the wires into and out of the Hoppy converter I'd pulled out. Are you running a 4-pin or 7-pin setup. With a popup sounds like maybe only a 4-pin? I had to pay close attention to the wiring diagram/color coding on the 7-pin set up as the wires coming out of the Hoppy converter were different colors than the color coding on the 7-pin plug. I had to go by the description of what the plug needed in each color location.

Rick - You've obviously solved your issues in a very ingenious way. Congrats. I have to wonder if still having your converter plugged into the LC wiring harness instead of the pigtail leads from the Kaymar wiring harness has anything to do with the problems you had. Sounds like both Nak and I moved the converter (if Nak has the converter in there) from the standard wiring harness location to the Kaymar wiring harness. You wouldn't think that would be an issue, but perhaps it is.

I'll know more this weekend after a 800 mile round trip with the trailer. Will be using the brakes alot over the grapevine and the mountain roads!

landtank · 05-12-05, 01:23 PM

I bought my Kaymar over 4 years ago. I wired the lights to the existing LC harness. There really wasn't much in the way of support for these things back then like there is with this site now. But I'd be surprised if tecnically there is any difference in the way our 2 rigs are wired. I mean that the lights in the bumpers are in parrallel to that of the trucks.

Brentbba · 05-12-05, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landtank

I bought my Kaymar over 4 years ago. I wired the lights to the existing LC harness. There really wasn't much in the way of support for these things back then like there is with this site now. But I'd be surprised if tecnically there is any difference in the way our 2 rigs are wired. I mean that the lights in the bumpers are in parrallel to that of the trucks.

Agree 100%, it's ultimately all going thru the same circuits, that's why I'm curious as to why you're having problems, and, this point, I don't appear to.

landtank · 05-12-05, 03:12 PM

I only blew out that first converter. They are too expensive for me to tinker around with, so I did some research and decided to make sure that the system waas up to where it should be to avoid another burn out. I haven't towed with it yet so maybe this isn't the problem and it was just a bad converter last time.

Just being cautious. I would fully expect the flasher to burn out first if there was too large a load placed on it.

Brentbba · 05-16-05, 11:12 AM

Rick - trip went great. No blown flasher or fuses. Keeping your upgrade info for back up info anyway. Just in case......

landtank · 05-20-05, 01:55 PM

Had a long drive thia past week and with the new flasher in place the directrionals worked erratically. Sometimes flashed at a normal rate, sometimes at a fast rate and sometimes started out correctly and slowly quicked. So fo now I've put everything back to normal. I really don't understand why the flasher would behave like this unless there is a supply issue in my system.

Anyway, I wouldn't recommend this to anyone else.

Brentbba · 05-20-05, 02:52 PM

Bad news man, bad

news! Sorry to hear that after all that hard work and research. I'm not going to give you my electrical system tho....seems to be just fine.

DRTDuck · 07-23-05, 09:24 AM

I thought the Stant/Tridon EP36 Flasher Unit is a plug and play replacement. Yes or no? I just plugged one in, the left turn works normal, the hazaards work normal, however, ther right turn flashes very rapidly. Thoughts?

landtank · 07-23-05, 09:35 AM

yes that is a replacement. It's also an electronic one so it's not supposed to flash at different speeds. I haven't gotten back into mine yet. Most electronic timing circuits use a capacitor/resistor setup where the resistor drains the cap down at a predictable rate giving you a constant timing. However if the supply voltage is low then the charge on the capacitor is lower which means it drains faster giving a quicker time cycle. At least that is how I understand it. I thought my issue was with the turn signal stalk, just plain scared to ask the price of that thing.

ParadiseCruiser · 07-23-05, 11:59 AM

Just another data point, since I've been through all of this as well...

My set up is an ARB front & Kaymar rear; a DrawTite 18357 trailer harness [converter] (very similar to the Hoppe/Hoppy?) - a total of 5 lamps per side w/the trailer hooked up - and a Stant/Tridon EP36 flasher (plug-n-play).

Though I tow only rarely, I've run this combination with no issues.

An interesting point: Some of the cross-reference charts the retailers use call for a Grote 44540 as a plug-n-play replacement flasher for the 80. This is incorrect, because the E - L - X - P pins outs (see Rick's first post) are incorrect, and the thing will fry itself & your fuses instantly.

Cheers, R -

DRTDuck · 07-23-05, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landtank

yes that is a replacement. It's also an electronic one so it's not supposed to flash at different speeds. I haven't gotten back into mine yet. Most electronic timing circuits use a capacitor/resistor setup where the resistor drains the cap down at a predictable rate giving you a constant timing. However if the supply voltage is low then the charge on the capacitor is lower which means it drains faster giving a quicker time cycle. At least that is how I understand it. I thought my issue was with the turn signal stalk, just plain scared to ask the price of that thing.

So maybe a wiring issue with all my added turn signals, ARB front, Slee side marker adaptation, JDM fender side marker, and Kaymar. Oh yeah, and the 3 turns that have 1155 bulbs are using 50w bulbs.

Yes! People know when I am turning. I realize that is a great deal of juice being drawn, but I have used large enough wire (i thought) as I have gone along, and as I said the left side works fine.

ParadiseCruiser · 07-23-05, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRTDuck

So maybe a wiring issue with all my added turn signals, ARB front, Slee side marker adaptation, JDM fender side marker, and Kaymar. Oh yeah, and the 3 turns that have 1155 bulbs are using 50w bulbs.

B -

The EP36 is rated for 3 lamps per side - as Rick points out - and used routinely with 4 per side (and occasionally pushed to 5 lamps per side) in my case.

If I read your post correctly, you run 6 lamps per side and, with the higher wattage bulbs, the electrical equivalent of perhaps 7-8 lamps per side. IMHO, I'd say you have surpassed the load capacity of the flasher and need yet another upgrade.

R -

DRTDuck · 07-23-05, 01:30 PM

"B -

The EP36 is rated for 3 lamps per side - as Rick points out - and used routinely with 4 per side (and occasionally pushed to 5 lamps per side) in my case.

If I read your post correctly, you run 6 lamps per side and, with the higher wattage bulbs, the electrical equivalent of perhaps 7-8 lamps per side. IMHO, I'd say you have surpassed the load capacity of the flasher and need yet another upgrade.

R -

You calculation is right. However, eveything has been functioning well with the stock flasher for over a year, except when I plug in the trailer harness. That is why I was looking to upgrade because I need to pull a trailer in a couple of weeks.

landtank · 07-23-05, 01:47 PM

this is getting as bad as those "I need more power" engine mod threads.

Brentbba · 01-09-06, 11:01 AM

Bringing this thread back to life.

I now have the ARB up front, Kaymar in the rear and the trailer. Just finished rewiring the trailer electrical connector on the truck. Destroyed the original one at Truckhaven, so I've got the new one tucked up behind the bumper where it won't get hit.

I'm now in the same position as Rick. I've got (on each side) two bulbs up front, one on the dash, two bulbs in the rear and one on the trailer for a total of 6 bulbs on each side, 12 total. I'm using a Hoppy converter and have the ARB spliced into the turn signal up front and the Kaymar into the wiring harness in the rear. With 10 bulbs, five each side, the factory flasher unit works just fine with no trailer hooked up.

I'd blown the 30 amp fuse to the brake controller on my aux fuse panel while rewiring the trailer connector. Quick trip to Pep Boys replaced the 30 amp fuse and controller is back in action and I now have the necessary spare fuses!!!

Quick trip to the church to plug in the trailer to make sure I'd rewired the truck correctly. Plugged in the trailer.....left turn signal, check, right turn signal, BOOM blown 7.5 amp signal fuse on the dash fuse panel. DAMN! Plugged in spare. BOOM blown fuse! DAMN! No more 7.5amp spares. Plugged in a 10 amp to the signal receptacle. Everything worked w/o issue on the truck and the trailer. I know it's not good to put a 10 amp fuse where 7.5 is what's called for.

Looks like I've met my max. I did use spade terminals when I spliced the ARB in up front. May just have to unplug the ARB turn signals when towing.

Question - what potential hazards to I risk using a 10 amp fuse instead of the 7.5 the circuit is rated for? Fry wires, the flasher unit, the converter box, fire, anything else?

Haven't tried the set-up with the ARB unplugged yet, but unless the draw from the trailer is more than the ARB, I should be ok. Currently have 10 bulbs, five each side, with the ARB plugged in and I've been ok since the ARB install at Xmas. Substitute the trailer bulb for the ARB and, theoretically I should be OK?

Rick, or anyone else, ever come up with another solution??

I don't need to tow until our March trip, so I've got a little time to figure something out.

landtank · 01-09-06, 02:26 PM

Brent I pretty much dropped this when I ran into a problem that needed much more troubleshooting. That was the fast flash rate on the upgraded flasher. I still don't understand how an electronic timing circuit would change, but it did. My last idea was a 12v supply issue but I never got around to checking that out.

Brentbba · 01-09-06, 03:02 PM

Rick - thanks. I'll let you know if just unplugging the ARB lights drops enough current to not pop a fuse when the trailer is connected.

Funny thing is that when it happened, my first thought was hoping that I could find this thread via search. What a wonderful feature search is.

landtank · 01-09-06, 07:20 PM

Let me know as I just finally hooked up my ARB blinkers last month and haven't towed yet or until the spring.

Rich · 01-09-06, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brentbba

...Question - what potential hazards to I risk using a 10 amp fuse instead of the 7.5 the circuit is rated for?...

Primary risk would be overheated supply wire starting a fire. The purpose of the fuse is to open up prior to the wire getting hot enough to melt the insulation and pose risk of shorting out and starting a fire.

Beowulf · 01-09-06, 11:04 PM

Does anyone have a link to a good wire size chart for 12v DC?

-B-