Wrist pin/piston slap ??

[fjfodee]

I've done quite a bit of research on this subject, and was wondering if anybody here has had similar experience on a 22RE.

History:
The engine is a reman-long block with 22k miles on it. I did not build the engine, but I did install it along with all new components (ie-water pump, T-chain kit, oil pump, etc.) The engine does great, runs strong, good compression, smooth idle, just like a motor with 22k miles should. However at about 7-10k miles ago I started to notice a slight thud like tap at idle, much like a lifter would sound, but it's not constant, it's more of a sporadic constant. If revved up to around 2k rpm as soon as it's in between accel and decel it rattles like valve lash but just at that point in the rpm range. It seems to be more prominant when the engine is cool and deminishes somewhat when the engine is warm, but does not completely go away. I have checked the valve lash (good), and it is not a chain noise. It sounds like it's coming from the bottom end, but can be heard at the top as well.

So my 3 culprits I think would be wrist pin slap, piston slap, or rod bearing. I'm leaning more towards wrist pin or piston slap because it does not increase with acceleration and gets somewhat quieter when warm. I've read conflicting stories on how to check for piston slap, some say it goes away when you disconnect the plug wire, and some say it increases in intensity, while some say wrist pin slap cannot be detected by disconnecting the plug wire. Thanks for any advice.

 

[corax]

from what you're saying about the noise when revving it, I'll agree that it sounds like wrist pin or piston slap. However, I've not heard of a wrist pin noise going away with temperature. I have personal experience with piston slap going away as an engine warms up (I had forged pistons in my last 22RE, so this was a normal noise while warming up).

Did you buy this as a rebuilt engine or was it your engine that was rebuilt? Do you know exactly what was done or replaced on the block?

 

[fjfodee]

It does'nt totally go away at operating temp, just becomes alot less noticeable. The engine was bought from a major remanufacturer so I don't know exactly what all was done. I'm sure they didn't use the best quality parts because the long block was only $1,000. I still have the original block and head so I may just build that myself and swap it out at some point.

 

[fjfodee]

Okay, what about a bad rocker arm? I checked the valve lash and it was all within spec, but I installed a mid-range cam when I put the motor in and used the old rockers. Could a bad rocker do the same thing as what I described before, but still be within the .008 & .012 spec? Is there any way to see cam/rocker wear other than using a micrometer?

 

[corax]

as long as the valve lash is in spec I wouldn't suspect anything valve train related.

Are you sure it's not semi-normal? IIRC, all the 22RE's I've had made at least a little bit of noise - not really a quiet engine. If you think there's a problem with the reman, is there any warranty remaining?

 

[fjfodee]

No, it's out of warranty. I've owned several 22's and this is not your normal 22 noise. Only reason I was thinking rocker arm is I got my stethoscope and could hear the rattle better on the top end around the #3 rocker on the exhaust side. Added a quart of Lucas and that didn't change anything. If it's piston slap should the noise go away if I disconnect the plug wire to that cylinder?

 

[TIMZTOY]

Yep. Piston slap will go away when plug wire is pulled. Wrist pin slap will not. It will remain as for getting louder When unlpuged (not sure)..

 

[toy4xfun]

maybe you have a bad cam bearing? most stock re's did not have bearings, some re-builders install them, and i am not sure if it will tap or knock like a rod bearing or not, just a thought.

 

[toy4xfun]

also, i assumed you did this when checking the valve clearance, but did you check your cam to make sure the lobes were not wiped?

 

[fjfodee]

also, i assumed you did this when checking the valve clearance, but did you check your cam to make sure the lobes were not wiped?

I did not, what do you mean by wiped?

 

[toy4xfun]

the lobes will be worn to almost round, usually happens to more than one though.

 

[toy4xfun]

here is another pic of the same cam.

 

[fjfodee]

Hmm, looks familiar. I'll have to check that this weekend. Thanks for the pics.

 

[toy4xfun]

if your cam looks like that, then that is probably your problem, do you have an fsm?

 

[fjfodee]

Don't have an FSM, just a Haynes and Chiltons. I assume the improper wear is caused by using the old rockers on a new cam?

 

[toy4xfun]

not always, if a rocker was worn than yes, but it could be an oiling problem, or improper adjustment.


the one i have pictured was the first cam in a head i bought off ebay, i put a new cam and rockers in it and it started to wipe that cam so i got another cam and replaced the rocker on the one that started to wear.
drove it less than 8 miles and #1 exhaust valve broke at the keeper, shattered my piston and bent the rod.
turned out it was a fawked up head.

 

[toy4xfun]

the Haynes should have the specs for your cam journals in it that is why i ask if you had one, you will have to plasti gauge it.

 

[toy4xfun]

any news?

just curious as to what you found.

 

[fjfodee]

Well I pulled one plug wire at a time today and the noise was still there. Guess that eliminates piston slap. Havent had time to pull the valve cover again, maybe this weekend.

 

[fjfodee]

Okay, found this on Youtube. Not my truck, but it's making the exact same noise.
The guy on this video say's his problem was wrist pin slap. Just wanted to get some more opinion's before I have to do a complete tear down. Anyone else come across this?

YouTube - 22re noise????