Tough dog w/ 285/75R17 Ridge Grapplers (need advice)

[chiplee]

I'm about to install the 45mm front and rear TD setup and I'm torn about whether or not to use the OEM spacer and rear shims (trim packers).

Based on several build threads here, I decided I wanted 15MM of shim in the rear and OEM spacers up front to get the height I was looking for with these tires, but now I'm torn.

Any thoughts? Seeing both opinions here, spacer makes it too much, and TD lift might not be quite enough without it for a 34" tire.

 

[Markuson]

I'm about to install the 45mm front and rear TD setup and I'm torn about whether or not to use the OEM spacer and rear shims (trim packers).

Based on several build threads here, I decided I wanted 15MM of shim in the rear and OEM spacers up front to get the height I was looking for with these tires, but now I'm torn.

Any thoughts? Seeing both opinions here, spacer makes it too much, and TD lift might not be quite enough without it for a 34" tire.

1.25 cents...
-With the right coil springs in back, you shouldn’t really need shims. Personally, I’d think about coil selection and design first, and then consider. Judging the rear height when empty can be deceiving. Consider loading weight in the back to judge.

Some rake in front is helpful to retain available down-travel from a neutral drive-height. You aren’t really pushing the front up as much as you give away down-travel to get the look.

 

[chiplee]

1.25 cents...
-With the right coil springs in back, you shouldn’t really need shims. Personally, I’d think about coil selection and design first, and then consider. Judging the rear height when empty can be deceiving. Consider loading weight in the back to judge.

Some rake in front is helpful to retain available down-travel from a neutral drive-height. You aren’t really pushing the front up as much as you give away down-travel to get the look.

Thanks. I'm more concerned with rubbing than a look, though proportion and stance are also important to me. So can I take that to mean you think that tire will fit with that lift without rubbing?

As for rake, I saw similar posts searching around and took it into account. As I'm sure you know, the TD setup is a leveling setup if you install it with no spacers or shims, though most here seemed to get more like 2.25-2.5" front and 1-1.25" rear. My thought was to make it .5" short of "level" with a 1" front spacer and .5" rear shims. Leaving a little rake for level riding when loaded. It's all speculation at this point, informed by builds here, but I don't expect to need heavy loads because most of my adventuring is trailer supported. Tongue and human weight is all I'll need to account for.

 

[Markuson]

Thanks. I'm more concerned with rubbing than a look, though proportion and stance are also important to me. So can I take that to mean you think that tire will fit with that lift without rubbing?

As for rake, I saw similar posts searching around and took it into account. As I'm sure you know, the TD setup is a leveling setup if you install it with no spacers or shims, so my thought was to make it .5" short of "level" with a 1" front spacer and .5" rear shims. Leaving a little rake for level riding when loaded. It's all speculation at this point, informed by builds here, but I don't expect to need heavy loads because most of my adventuring is trailer supported. Tongue and human weight is all I'll need to account for.

Rubbing depends on a zillion factors.
After market UCAs, alignment positioning, wheel offset, tire width, spacers and their effect on the sweep in turns....trimming skirting or trimming or removing mud flaps, and on and on

A lift really shouldn’t be the strategy to avoid rubbing bc all that does is postpone the impact until you’re at full stuff/articulation. If the lift is to avoid rubbing, I would seriously consider other changes.

You can add larger bump-stops in front. I doubt you’ll need in back with 34’s unless they are super wide.

I would talk to the shop you bought your suspension from and talk about it.

 

[chiplee]

Rubbing depends on a zillion factors.
After market UCAs, alignment positioning, wheel offset, tire width, spacers and their effect on the sweep in turns....trimming skirting or trimming or removing mud flaps, and on and on

A lift really shouldn’t be the strategy to avoid rubbing bc all that does is postpone the impact until you’re at full stuff/articulation. If the lift is to avoid rubbing, I would seriously consider other changes.

You can add larger bump-stops in front. I doubt you’ll need in back with 34’s unless they are super wide.

Good point, no spacers, Icon Alloy Rebound "Bronze" 17x8.5 +25. SPC UCAs. Good point about lift not being a good way to avoid rubbing, too. Guess I was (perhaps erroneously) assuming it moved the tire down "out" of the wheel well enough to help a little in certain articulation situations, but it certainly needs to clear in all situations.

 

[Markuson]

Good point, no spacers, Icon Alloy Rebound "Bronze" 17x8.5 +25. SPC UCAs. Good point about lift not being a good way to avoid rubbing, too. Guess I was (perhaps erroneously) assuming it moved the tire down "out" of the wheel well enough to help a little in certain articulation situations, but it certainly needs to clear in all situations.

Ya, lift can be deceiving for contact. Even worse, it can mean that the time you discover the contact is either in crazy articulation, or in a high-speed dip.

Have a look at this wheel-stuff from Breckenridge.... This is with very heavy rear coils and very low speed. That “lift” goes away completely under serious articulation:

PS. This was MILD trail, too. Nothing crazy at all. Really more a testament to effective rear articulation in our rigs.... And ya, my wide 35’s rubbed here. My 34’s don’t.

 

[chiplee]

Ya, lift really doesn’t soft it. Even worse, it can mean the time you discover the contact can be bad...either in crazy articulation, or in a high-speed dip.

Have a look at this wheel-stuff from Breckenridge.... This is with very heavy rear coils and very low speed. That “lift” goes away completely under serious articulation:

View attachment 2116752

Beautiful rig. Been drooling over it and ones like it since I joined here. I can relate. To make 35's work on my 4th gen 4Runner I have a Metal Tech rear long travel kit, which really just moves the pivot point down to prevent full stuff like that.

 

[Markuson]

Beautiful rig. Been drooling over it and ones like it since I joined here. I can relate. To make 35's work on my 4th gen 4Runner I have a Metal Tech rear long travel kit, which really just moves the pivot point down to prevent full stuff like that.

Ya... I don’t want to be any taller than necessary, because in the super sketchy, tippy, on-edge-of-rolling trails (like both driver wheels suspended), added height isn’t helpful. M
I yanked a nearly-new set of 35’s out recently because it was just too hard on the truck. Very happy having dropped an inch of height and width to 34’s. So much better in every way even if not quite as visually beefy.

 

[chiplee]

Ya... I don’t want to be any taller than necessary, frankly, because in the super sketchy, tippy, on-edge-of-rolling trails (like both driver wheels suspended), added height isn’t helpful.

I yanked a nearly-new set of 35’s out recently because it was just too hard on the truck. Very happy having dropped an inch of height and width to 34’s. So much better in every way even if not quite as visually beefy.

Yeah, it was reading stories like yours that kept from going to 35s on the LC, but I do worry about clearance. I sail right over almost everything in my 4Runner in some pretty technical stuff. I guess my mindset in that rig was that armor and sliders were there for mistakes, not consciously dragging the bottom over rocks.

You find yourself hitting the bottom much?

 

[Markuson]

Yeah, it was reading stories like yours that kept from going to 35s on the LC, but I do worry about clearance. I sail right over almost everything in my 4Runner in some pretty technical stuff. I guess my mindset in that rig was that armor and sliders were there for mistakes, not consciously dragging the bottom over rocks.

You find yourself hitting the bottom much?

View attachment 2116764

Yes. I hit stuff.
Go peek at the last page of “post your wheeling damage” sticky...
But that doesn’t mean you will.

Even taking really good lines, some obstacles are just a choice between taking some hits or taking a bypass.

We aren’t rock buggies. -So if we routinely venture into the more aggressive rocks to push the limits of our big, heavy rigs, we’re gonna hit stuff...even on trails that are nowhere near “extreme rock-crawling.”

For “actual” extreme rock crawling (as opposed to what we do), ask @Taco2Cruiser to post a few of his pre-200-days shots.

 

[chiplee]

SPCs are in. Took like 45 minutes each of actual wrenching. I’m disorganized at the moment so it was more like half a day in reality. That’s 4hrs/$480 off the dealer estimate. I’ll probably do the fronts struts tomorrow or Monday, which will be another 3.5hrs off their estimate. They only wanted .3hrs each to do the rears so they might get that work. Guess maybe I should start a build thread.

 

[chiplee]

Uh oh. That ain’t right. Thought the OME80PF10 shims fit LC200? Guess I’ll go without them for now.

 

[chiplee]

This is the only thing I've ever seen with pictures of how trim packers are installed in the rear, and there's no way these are going in like that. I've read posts here that suggest they go between the bump stop and the vehicle over the spring guide. Not fitting there either.

http://www.sonoransteel.com/download/guide.pdf

Directions here say,
"Polyurethane Trim Spacers:
Do not use OME trim spacers as a replacement for OE spring isolators. In all cases, OME trim spacers must be installed on top of the coil between coil isolator and top coil mounting seat."

drivetrain.com

Drivetrain catalog offering free springs and shocks installation instructions suspension repair Parts, Springs, Shocks see instructions before you buy!

www.drivetrain.com

 

[chiplee]

Edit: Guess they go between the spring and the bump stop. Think I got the 6" and need the 8".

 

[chiplee]

Rears went in pretty easily. 2017 has nice 8mm bolts for the KDSS vice 5mm Allen keys. Will add trim packers later if needed.

 

[linuxgod]

You won’t need trim packers in the rear with the TD setup, unless you’re carrying a lot of weight, in which case you’ll want heavy tears.

You might want spacers in the front, depending on your use case. There’s a definite rake in my setup which is the same as yours - 45mm TD with Nitto RG 34s. I lost about 1/4-1/3” in front with the 200# bumper and winch, but even before that there was about 1” of rake once the suspension was broken I after 5-10k miles. That said I like the rake because when towing it’s about level

 

[chiplee]

You won’t need trim packers in the rear with the TD setup, unless you’re carrying a lot of weight, in which case you’ll want heavy tears.

You might want spacers in the front, depending on your use case. There’s a definite rake in my setup which is the same as yours - 45mm TD with Nitto RG 34s. I lost about 1/4-1/3” in front with the 200# bumper and winch, but even before that there was about 1” of rake once the suspension was broken I after 5-10k miles. That said I like the rake because when towing it’s about level

View attachment 2119662

Thanks! Awesome color. I installed one front last night with the spacer and I’m honestly not super comfortable with how far the 4 top nuts tightened down on the studs. The studs are almost exactly flush with the top of the nut. Would like to see at least a thread sticking up out of there. Goal is to end up with .5” of rake eventually. Will post how it goes.

 

[chiplee]

Btw, do you know where your star plates are for caster? I’m planning to take it for alignment with them in position E (O degrees of change) putting camber all the way negative as a starting point with lift spacers installed.

 

[chiplee]

Wrapped up my install tonight. Ended up with 37.5” fender height all the way around, which stands to reason when I was looking for about .5” rake and left the rear shims out. Might just try it this way for a while and see how I like it. Wheels and tires tomorrow. Alignment Friday. What’s the consensus on zero point and VSC calibration? Necessity or only if you get codes?

 

[chiplee]

Yeah that’ll do.