Thinking about dropping from 5" to 3" lift...

[fjc8871]

The MAF 5" lift looks great and worked great for PO. However, I want more of an overland rig and 5" of lift is not ideal. So I am thinking of 850J up front and 863 in rear to replace the huge 5" OME competition springs and have a level stance. Rest of the setup is as follows:

OME L shocks all 4 corners
35" Toyo Open Country M/T
DC front drive shaft
OME front control arm drop brackets for caster correction (I don't see the yellow busings in the rear of the front arms but see yellow bushings up front. I called MAF and they said to just replace the rear OME busings with OEM bushings. I might still be running OEMs... )
I am running with no sway. It's not bad but I am looking to source one as the rig did not coome equipped with one.
Oh and I am armored front and rear which is why I am looking at heavies.

My hopes are to drop the rig off to Yotamasters next Monday and have them regear to 4.88 and rebuild the knuckles, replace ujoints and rebalance the shafts. The 5" lift has done some whacky things the drive shafts. Might also have a bearing out in the TC causing some noises but could be bad ujoints, which I keep greased so who knows.

I am either swapping the springs this week or next weekend and figuring out my current caster correction and what I need to do after lowering the rig before dropping off to Yotamasters.

Any advice or suggestions for my setup?

 

[pinoytoys]

The MAF 5" lift looks great and worked great for OP. However, I want more of an overland rig and 5" of lift is not ideal. So I am thinking of 850J up front and 863 in rear to replace to huge 5" OME competition springs and have a level stance. Rest of the setup is as follows:

OME L shocks all 4 corners
35" Toyo Open Country M/T
DC front drive shaft
OME front control arm drop brackets for caster correction (I don't see the yellow busings in the rear of the front arms but see yellow bushings up front. I called MAF and they said to just replace the rear OME busings with OEM bushings. I might still be running OEMs... )
I am running with no sway. It's not bad but I am looking to source one as the rig did not coome equipped with one.
Oh and I am armored front and rear which is why I am looking at heavies.

My hopes are to drop the rig off to Yotamasters next Monday and have them regear to 4.88 and rebuild the knuckles, replace ujoints and rebalance the shafts. The 5" lift has done some whacky things the drive shafts. Might also have a bearing out in the TC causing some noises but could be bad ujoints, which I keep greased so who knows.

I am either swapping the springs this week or next weekend and figuring out my current caster correction and what I need to do after lowering the rig before dropping off to Yotamasters.

Any advice or suggestions for my setup?

850j/863 will be a great combo for you. It should ride great with all the weight you have although you might have a little stink bug. Any of the caster plates should be perfect for you but from what I've heard, slee's might be a easier install. I have them and install was a breeze. Yellow bushings probably won't be enough caster and you would need to source stock ones to use with the plates. Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters had a bunch of stock ones laying around and was kind enough to send me some (free). I did purchase some other stuff from him at the same time. Good luck with everything and see you on the trails!

 

[fjc8871]

850j/863 will be a great combo for you. It should ride great with all the weight you have although you might have a little stink bug. Any of the caster plates should be perfect for you but from what I've heard, slee's might be a easier install. I have them and install was a breeze. Yellow bushings probably won't be enough caster and you would need to source stock ones to use with the plates. Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters had a bunch of stock ones laying around and was kind enough to send me some (free). I did purchase some other stuff from him at the same time. Good luck with everything and see you on the trails!

Thanks bro. Should I just run 850 with trim spacers? 5 or 10mm to keep it level. I figured maybe going 3" up front and 2" in the rear I could keep it level as well. As for the caster correction, I need to figure out if my OME/MAF is installed correctly. Maybe I should call Kurt at CO and see if he has a oem sway bar and mounting hardware, passenger side light and some OEM busings for the front lower arms.

 

[pinoytoys]

Thanks bro. Should I just run 850 with trim spacers? 5 or 10mm to keep it level. I figured maybe going 3" up front and 2" in the rear I could keep it level as well. As for the caster correction, I need to figure out if my OME/MAF is installed correctly. Maybe I should call Kurt at CO and see if he has a oem sway bar and mounting hardware, passenger side light and some OEM busings for the front lower arms.

If you just run 850s, you'll need a one inch spacer to be the same height as the Js. The 863s sit pretty high unless you have alot of weight. 850j or 850 with a spacer is the same thing. Any one of these combos with 863s should be perfect for your setup and yeild you a 3 inch level lift all around. Do you have additional weight in the back?

 

[fjc8871]

Yes, I have junk in the trunk. I have a rear bumper (sean) w/ spare tire swing out. I am leaning towards 850J up front and 863 in the rear. 3" up front and 2" in rear to level it out. The weight of the ARB should bring the nose down level with the rear I am hoping.

 

[mkfour]

What about frankie's lift?

 

[fjc8871]

Thats the lift we helped install a few Saturdays back? Looks good but just need to swap out springs since I have a lift already.

 

[pinoytoys]

Most important part of Frankies lift are the front springs. They make all the difference. I went from 850j to FOR front springs and the ride height is identical. The ride quality on and off road is worlds better. Frankies front springs are a perfect match with the 863. I was fortunate enough to get a lightly used set but new ones are $300. Well worth the $ IMO

 

[cruiserruf]

do it. 3-4" of lift is enough to get you where ever a 5-6" lift will go. plus no suspension geometry to deal with, driveline vibrations, etc.

 

[fjc8871]

Most important part of Frankies lift are the front springs. They make all the difference. I went from 850j to FOR front springs and the ride height is identical. The ride quality on and off road is worlds better. Frankies front springs are a perfect match with the 863. I was fortunate enough to get a lightly used set but new ones are $300. Well worth the $ IMO

Hmmmm. I hear nothing but good things about FOR suspension. Now you got me thinking. Would not mind running FOR springs up front and 863 in rear. I am wondering how they march up with the OME L shocks. I am thinking of eventually replacing the shocks as well. I saw a post of fox w/ res on the main 80 section. Some running Pro Comp or Bilstein. All proven off road shocks. Decisions...decisions. Do you still have your J's for sale?

do it. 3-4" of lift is enough to get you where ever a 5-6" lift will go. plus no suspension geometry to deal with, driveline vibrations, etc.

The 5" is whacky. I get clanks, thuds and vibes when driving. The most annoying is the orchestra (noises) under the 80. On open highway it's not too bad but in So Cal traffic it echoes off the other cars and is embarrassing :whoops: Like the dependale TLC is going to come off it's chasis and fall apart.

 

[sdnative]

The 5" is whacky. I get clanks, thuds and vibes when driving. The most annoying is the orchestra (noises) under the 80. On open highway it's not too bad but in So Cal traffic it echoes off the other cars and is embarrassing :whoops: Like the dependale TLC is going to come off it's chasis and fall apart.

I get noises from the FOR lift, no vibes though. Not sure what it is yet, but I get creaking noises when the suspension cycles, and clunks when I go over bumps. The front springs are much softer than the OME and I feel don't plant the front to the road as well. Haven't had it off road yet, so we'll see. So far I'm not 100% sold.

I had the OME 850/863 on my old 94 and it was great. I had a rear bumper and cargo in the back, so it was relatively level and comfortable. Without the bumper and cargo it was major stinkbug and rode like junk. If was running without the weight all the time I would have gone with the 860 in the back.

 

[mattafact]

Hmmmm. I hear nothing but good things about FOR suspension. Now you got me thinking. Would not mind running FOR springs up front and 863 in rear. I am wondering how they march up with the OME L shocks. I am thinking of eventually replacing the shocks as well. I saw a post of fox w/ res on the main 80 section. Some running Pro Comp or Bilstein. All proven off road shocks. Decisions...decisions. Do you still have your J's for sale?

Go with something decent like Bilstein, Fox, or King.

Downsouth Motorsports can make you shocks in any configuration.

As for valving, Bill from Fox told me: "30-40 on compression and 90 or so on rebound."

 

[pinoytoys]

Hmmmm. I hear nothing but good things about FOR suspension. Now you got me thinking. Would not mind running FOR springs up front and 863 in rear. I am wondering how they march up with the OME L shocks. I am thinking of eventually replacing the shocks as well. I saw a post of fox w/ res on the main 80 section. Some running Pro Comp or Bilstein. All proven off road shocks. Decisions...decisions. Do you still have your J's for sale?



The 5" is whacky. I get clanks, thuds and vibes when driving. The most annoying is the orchestra (noises) under the 80. On open highway it's not too bad but in So Cal traffic it echoes off the other cars and is embarrassing :whoops: Like the dependale TLC is going to come off it's chasis and fall apart.

FOR springs work pretty well with the Ls up front. I run the procomps in the rear. The ride is very smooth but would benefit greatly from a high end shock like others have stated. For a lower line shock, I recommend the procomps. They work well enough on road but are great off road. Sorry, but I sold the Js

I get noises from the FOR lift, no vibes though. Not sure what it is yet, but I get creaking noises when the suspension cycles, and clunks when I go over bumps. The front springs are much softer than the OME and I feel don't plant the front to the road as well. Haven't had it off road yet, so we'll see. So far I'm not 100% sold.

I had the OME 850/863 on my old 94 and it was great. I had a rear bumper and cargo in the back, so it was relatively level and comfortable. Without the bumper and cargo it was major stinkbug and rode like junk. If was running without the weight all the time I would have gone with the 860 in the back.

I think any suspension lift will get occasional clunking and creaks off road. Our front suspensions are very tight and don't move too well while the back moves very easily. You will hear the suspension working if you're flexing the vehicle enough. On road, I experience no unusual noises so I'm not sure what it could be.

Yes, the FOR front springs are much softer but that is where I feel they shine. They're only soft for the first couple inches of compression but stiffen up quickly. IMO the OME Js were too hard but I also wasn't running any weight on them but weighted they feel much better. IMHO there really is no comparison of the comfort level you get using FOR springs off road. The vehicle is much more predictable and smooth. It just feels balanced. Follow me on the trail and see for yourself. OME= truck like feel
FOR= offroad caddy

I'm not knocking OME. I think for most people, they work just fine. They just don't completely suit my needs. Once they make a progressive rate front spring, I'm sure I'll be singing a different tune. I know FOR has changed his springs many times to get the right spring rate combination. IMO, OME is all about the $$$ and not about product development anymore. I'd rather support a vendor I could discuss my needs with and have a product developed to support my needs. Does OME do that?

OK.. I think I've said too much but you get my point. fjc8871 - Your more than welcome to drive my truck before you make a decision on what route you decide to go. I'm in Buena Park and local to you. If cruiserruf is over, you could do a side by side comparison. Are rigs are identical setups except for our front springs. Good luck with your decision and if you have any questions, feel free to contact me anytime.

 

[fjc8871]

FOR springs work pretty well with the Ls up front. I run the procomps in the rear. The ride is very smooth but would benefit greatly from a high end shock like others have stated. For a lower line shock, I recommend the procomps. They work well enough on road but are great off road. Sorry, but I sold the Js



I think any suspension lift will get occasional clunking and creaks off road. Our front suspensions are very tight and don't move too well while the back moves very easily. You will hear the suspension working if you're flexing the vehicle enough. On road, I experience no unusual noises so I'm not sure what it could be.

Yes, the FOR front springs are much softer but that is where I feel they shine. They're only soft for the first couple inches of compression but stiffen up quickly. IMO the OME Js were too hard but I also wasn't running any weight on them but weighted they feel much better. IMHO there really is no comparison of the comfort level you get using FOR springs off road. The vehicle is much more predictable and smooth. It just feels balanced. Follow me on the trail and see for yourself. OME= truck like feel
FOR= offroad caddy

I'm not knocking OME. I think for most people, they work just fine. They just don't completely suit my needs. Once they make a progressive rate front spring, I'm sure I'll be singing a different tune. I know FOR has changed his springs many times to get the right spring rate combination. IMO, OME is all about the $$$ and not about product development anymore. I'd rather support a vendor I could discuss my needs with and have a product developed to support my needs. Does OME do that?

OK.. I think I've said too much but you get my point. fjc8871 - Your more than welcome to drive my truck before you make a decision on what route you decide to go. I'm in Buena Park and local to you. If cruiserruf is over, you could do a side by side comparison. Are rigs are identical setups except for our front springs. Good luck with your decision and if you have any questions, feel free to contact me anytime.

"progressive rate front spring" FTW! Thanks for the offer. I am going to take you up on it. I am real close to you.

 

[fjc8871]

I decided with 850J and 863 to replace the 5" comp springs. Got them from Kurt @ CO. Got the ring and pinion for 4.88 re-gear, master rebuild kit and knuckle rebuild kits as well. Can't wait! Thanks all for your time and advice. Yotamasters here I come.

 

[mattafact]

Good choice. If I was keeping mine lifted I'd do that exact spring combo.