The Knitting Circle

[mjl132]

There wasn't a trial or judgment that Chris did anything. The cops said, and the media reported, that he had a manifesto out for killing "racist cops". The police then shot at least 3 innocent people (two Asian women and a white guy) because they "matched the description of the suspect"

They locked the city of Boston down and did a door to door search (without a warrant)

One brother was shot and killed during a fire fight with police, or was captured alive and died later, which "official report" do you want to go by?

An "accomplice" died later during questioning (he attacked an officer??)

via mobile app.

You refer to Dorner by his first name like you know him, and then you have the gall to say he did nothing wrong. Maybe you missed where he killed 4 innocent people. When you kill innocent people, especially police officers, you will be tracked down and either brought to trial or killed. And he had no desire to be caught.

If you have a legitimate beef there are ways to handle it beside acting like a madman. How he handled himself is not a true American that appreciates the rights and guarantees of the Constitution does. Surely you can understand that.

And yes, they locked Boston down to find two terrorists who killed children and others. They knocked and went door to door after the brothers killed an MIT officer, and you know what, they didn't get to New York or anywhere else to kill other people. I'd call that a success. You mention they went door to door without warrants. Police didn't kick in doors and drag people out, they helped restore confidence and order to a city on the brink.

You realise, here in the real world, there isn't time to get all touchy feely. You sometimes have to make hard choices when you lead in times of crisis. But your examples are no where near what East Germany or other totalitarian states and not everything is a damn conspiracy all the time.

 

[mjl132]

You refer to Dorner by his first name like you know him, and then you have the gall to say he did nothing wrong. Maybe you missed where he killed 4 innocent people. When you kill innocent people, especially police officers, you will be tracked down and either brought to trial or killed. And he had no desire to be caught.

If you have a legitimate beef there are ways to handle it beside acting like a madman. How he handled himself is not a true American that appreciates the rights and guarantees of the Constitution does. Surely you can understand that.

And yes, they locked Boston down to find two terrorists who killed children and others. They knocked and went door to door after the brothers killed an MIT officer, and you know what, they didn't get to New York or anywhere else to kill other people. I'd call that a success. You mention they went door to door without warrants. Police didn't kick in doors and drag people out, they helped restore confidence and order to a city on the brink.

You realise, here in the real world, there isn't time to get all touchy feely. You sometimes have to make hard choices when you lead in times of crisis. But your examples are no where near what East Germany or other totalitarian states and not everything is a damn conspiracy all the time.

Maybe I was little harsh. My point is that every law has a downside, every police department can overreact, and every politician has the propensity to overreach, but it is not nearly as bad as what people try to make it out to be.

We could all point to specific instances to prove a point but overall the police in this country aren't tyrannical and the first time they don't show up people freak out. And not everything has sinister notions in the background, in fact, most things don't.

We need to, as a nation, learn to quit trying to paint those that disagree as all wrong or all right. We need to come together and find where we can fix things, such as the gentleman Hagan refers to earlier, rather than drive around with a card picking fights at DUI checkpoints.

 

[justbecause]

do you know, or have evidence that Chris Dorner did anything? he didnt go to trial... he didnt upload a video or write a note. His ID was found at least twice if not 3 times at crime scenes, depending on which "official report" you read.

the test of a civilized society is how they treat criminals.

Even the bundys and mansons should get a trial.

everyone has rights, no matter how bat s*** crazy they are.

if i wanted police to act like a batman meets the punisher nightmare I would support politicians who thought the same. I dont. I expect more from people entrusted with positions like that.

even if those brothers did bomb anything, which i doubt, they werent going anywhere else. If those people did anything they were trained to do so by the CIA, FIB or some other alphabet soup entity.

The fed had bomb sniffing dogs, snipers on roof top, they told the people there that there was a bomb drill.

you must have at least heard about one of the "attacks" the FBI has halted in the last 10 years, that after investigation was found to actually be an FBI plan to "track the terrorist" like "fast and furious" was a plan to "track the guns to the real bad guys"

 

[mjl132]

do you know, or have evidence that Chris Dorner did anything? he didnt go to trial... he didnt upload a video or write a note. His ID was found at least twice if not 3 times at crime scenes, depending on which "official report" you read.

the test of a civilized society is how they treat criminals.

Even the bundys and mansons should get a trial.

everyone has rights, no matter how bat s*** crazy they are.

if i wanted police to act like a batman meets the punisher nightmare I would support politicians who thought the same. I dont. I expect more from people entrusted with positions like that.

even if those brothers did bomb anything, which i doubt, they werent going anywhere else. If those people did anything they were trained to do so by the CIA, FIB or some other alphabet soup entity.

The fed had bomb sniffing dogs, snipers on roof top, they told the people there that there was a bomb drill.

you must have at least heard about one of the "attacks" the FBI has halted in the last 10 years, that after investigation was found to actually be an FBI plan to "track the terrorist" like "fast and furious" was a plan to "track the guns to the real bad guys"

So Dorner is innocent, the brothers didn't bomb Boston, and there is a pot o gold at the end of the rainbow?

People do deserve a fair trial, absolutely. But it takes a giant and very odd leap of faith to say Dorner didn't kill 4 innocent people and the brothers Tsarneav didn't set off two bombs.

If you're willing to take that leap, congratulations. That's what makes America both great and very weird sometimes.

 

[Land Speeder]

even if those brothers did bomb anything, which i doubt,

Are you friggin mad?
JEEBUS. I wanna use more harsh words, but I'll refrain. So you feel that every person above your position, is doing covert things?!
I'm all for believing our government does covert things, A LOT, but damn.

 

[mjl132]

Are you friggin mad?
JEEBUS. I wanna use more harsh words, but I'll refrain. So you feel that every person above your position, is doing covert things?!
I'm all for believing our government does covert things, A LOT, but damn.

I'm doing covert things. I actually am building a Ti Fighter meets Delorean in my basement to travel back in time. But don't tell anyone.

 

[Land Speeder]

I'm doing covert things. I actually am building a Ti Fighter meets Delorean in my basement to travel back in time. But don't tell anyone.

I doubt it. I bet the gubment is doing it and saying you're doing it.

 

[futurefjowner]

Are you friggin mad?
JEEBUS. I wanna use more harsh words, but I'll refrain. So you feel that every person above your position, is doing covert things?!
I'm all for believing our government does covert things, A LOT, but damn.

Seconded. And I want to hear 'speeders harsher words, too. That sounds like fun!

 

[mjl132]

I doubt it. I bet the gubment is doing it and saying you're doing it.

Well the government is funding me with money they get from mining unobtanium on Nabahwooistan located in the Hybum galaxy. We developed the technology after paying little green men for killing Kennedy. This is code word clearance stuff people, don't share it.

 

[BamaPaul]

All kidding aside I did post the video BC it looked like something Zack would LOVE to do. The Chris Dorner thing I am more entitled to beloved he is innocent there was very little proof that was propagated by very few people. It really sounds like a movie rouge cop has the scoop on some higher up and they use all their power to stop him. Bruce Willis could star in it.

 

[mjl132]

All kidding aside I did post the video BC it looked like something Zack would LOVE to do. The Chris Dorner thing I am more entitled to beloved he is innocent there was very little proof that was propagated by very few people. It really sounds like a movie rouge cop has the scoop on some higher up and they use all their power to stop him. Bruce Willis could star in it.

So if Dorner is innocent, what is he innocent of? The initial firing he suffered? Great. Congrats. I still point to the fact he killed 4 people. For Christ sake, he killed 4 people 'proving' his innocence. That's crazy.

He should have sued, hired a lawyer, fought his firing. Not taken up arms and killed officers. He brought the police out and they shot other people. It was a fiasco, but he started it by taking up arms and shooting at police.

Lets argue whether or not he should have been fired, that's a fair argument, but lets not muddy the water and say he's innocent. He is guilty of killing police and others trying to prove he was 'right'.

 

[justbecause]

So if Dorner is innocent, what is he innocent of? The initial firing he suffered? Great. Congrats. I still point to the fact he killed 4 people. For Christ sake, he killed 4 people 'proving' his innocence. That's crazy.

He should have sued, hired a lawyer, fought his firing. Not taken up arms and killed officers. He brought the police out and they shot other people. It was a fiasco, but he started it by taking up arms and shooting at police.

Lets argue whether or not he should have been fired, that's a fair argument, but lets not muddy the water and say he's innocent. He is guilty of killing police and others trying to prove he was 'right'.

I dont think he killed anyone. (innocent until proven guilty) and my point is that you cant know he killed anyone without a trial. How do I make that more clear?

 

[mjl132]

I dont think he killed anyone. (innocent until proven guilty) and my point is that you cant know he killed anyone without a trial. How do I make that more clear?

So following your line of reasoning Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, and Osama Bin Laden are all innocent since they never had a true trial. There are cases where the preponderance of evidence points to the facts and allows any reasonable person to deduce guilt or innocence. While a trial was not afforded to Dorner, or the other listed individuals, I can with confidence say they are all guilty.

I don't how I can make it more clear that there are cases where people are clearly guilty by the facts known, trial or not. While it would be great if each of those people got a trial, they didn't because they either avoided a trial, committed suicide, or were killed by law enforcement. That doesn't mean they're innocent though.

Surely you're wouldn't argue Hitler, Pol Pot, and Osama Bin Laden are innocent of the crimes they stood accused? Nor is Dorner innocent of killing 4 innocent people. It was his choice to run from the police when he was a fugitive. If he was so innocent, why not turn himself over to the justice system you and he are so confident in?

 

[BamaPaul]

I am not a conspiracy guy but it just feels like a movie to me. Dorner uncovers something about Mr. X, Mr X has so much power in the city that he goes after and discredits Dorner. He starts by killing the former police chiefs daughter and her boyfriend to make the easy link to Dorner and make him look mentally unstable. This is enough to put Dorner on alert and stay digging more, he finds out that 2 cops are the actual trigger men who killed the girl and her boyfriend and goes after them and the elusive Mr X. Then Mr X pots out a $1,000,000 bounty on Dorner BC he knows he's getting too close to the truth and will be able to expose him. Now everywhere Dorner turns he fins an adversary who is trying to win the lottery by ending his life. Bam best selling book and movie. The NSA doesn't read mud do they?

 

[justbecause]

why would he turn himself in? "they" (the people he would be turning himself into) already said he turned in this "everyone is out to get the black guy" memo, that he may or may not have written.

Thats like asking why doesnt Snowden come back and ask for a fair trial.

hitler is on video explaining his plan, he took credit for his book, he was elected on a publicly presented plan. hitler killed millions, dorner at worst killed 4, to compare the two you have to be removed from reality.

bin laden should have gotten a trial, guilty or not, thats irrelevant.
he admitted to doing things, but he should have had his day in court to explain why he did them.

hitler killed himself, thats his own decision, I dont know anything about pol pot. I blame public education for that.

but why cover why 200k dead/wounded over 20 years? thats just a waste of tax payer money... we were fighting the enemy, what else do you need to know?

eurasia has always been at war with oceania

 

[BamaPaul]

Ok my creative writing is done for the day.

 

[mjl132]

So I guess by Zac's admission, as well as others, killing two people at most is ok. You know, since we're ignoring the two he was 'framed' for. If Dorner was innocent and wanted to prove it he would have come forward and handled it like a man. Not a coward that kills and runs. If I am 'framed' for a crime I'll retain counsel and fight it, that's what normal sane people do. They don't shoot at police and then hope conspiracy theorists clear their name after they have died and killed.

Not everything is a conspiracy and at some point you have to accept that not everyone keeps secrets. If some of the crazy stuff you allege actually occurred it would take numerous participants and not everyone can keep their mouth shut. If Dorner was innocent then at some point it would have come out, hard proof, to clear his name of 4 killings.

All I see is a plot to a Tom Clancy novel and some vast conspiracy that takes more faith to believe than thinking Unicorns exist.

 

[mjl132]

but why cover why 200k dead/wounded over 20 years? thats just a waste of tax payer money... we were fighting the enemy, what else do you need to know?

eurasia has always been at war with oceania

I'm almost afraid to ask, but what does this mean?

 

[Land Speeder]

I'm almost afraid to ask, but what does this mean?

You weren't supposed to see that, it was for the other parallel forum.
These are not the droids you're looking for.

 

[Land Speeder]

red?
or. blue?