saginaw swapout

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hwgates

hwgates

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Joined
Aug 20, 2005
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44
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252
Location
Jackson, ms
fellas,

i am half way through removing my old power steering gear box and i have run into some issues. I know that this is a shocker, but any help is appreciated.

I found a pitman arm puller and have removed the pitman arm, and I have loosened the bolt where the steering arm comes down to the box. I am having trouble with the bolts that hold the gear box to the frame. I am only able to get one out. The other three do not have enough clearance to fully unscrew. I have attached a couple of pictures that show this.

I was thinking I might chop them off but then i still won't be able to pull the screws out. any ideas?
IMG_0342.webp
IMG_0347.webp
 
Unscrew a little at a time until the box is released, then screw a little at a time until the new box is attached.
 
jofj40 said:
Unscrew a little at a time until the box is released, then screw a little at a time until the new box is attached.
Click to expand...


Yep. Use your spare hand to pull the box away from the bollts.

Saginaw huh? You going 37's?:)
 
He's already got it. Just replacing the box if I recall right.

Later,
 
BTDT....That damn Cast Plate...I had to dremel the frame a bit to get clearance on one or two...but like everyone else suggested, using your 3rd and 4th had support the box away from the frame and start each bolt and then tighten each sequentially until its tight to the frame.

I might have even burred the box a bit, but I can't recall...

Its def a pain in the ass, and I fully intend to swap to welded plate if/when it breaks or the box goes again...

HTH
 
alright alright...
thanks for the suggestions. I ended up cutting one bolt off. The two on the bottom are still a problem. They are loose but the unit is not wiggling at all. I have loosened the the steering arm...and I am wondering if i am going to need to loosen it more. It is just so inaccessible. The connection for the steering arm is recessed in the frame.

anyways I might just chop em all off. New bolts are not a bad thing, but it will be a pain putting it back on.

Also, is there anything i need to do in this swap that my ignorance would omit? like when i fill the system back up with steering fluid is there anything special i need to do to make sure it gets all the way down to the gear box?

chattfj40,I think the plate that the box is bolted to is welded to my frame. Is there a better option? I am all ears on better ways to go.
 
It is welded to the frame, but the plate itself is cast, vs the newer style that OrangeFJ45 and others make and sell here on mud. Changing plates is a rather large fab job, and that's why I'm not doing it till I have to.

To get the most play in the system be sure to loosen the bolt that holds the spud shaft to the input shaft of the sag box. I'm not sure what the box is binding on...bumper? Front crossmember?

Honestly, a big pry bar might be the ticket...you're not gonna hurt the box

Todd
 
Any chance you can use allen head bolts when you put the new box on? Can you get allen head bolts that are strong enough? Grade 5 or 8?? This might make bolting the new box in easier.
 
I have removed the old box! it took alot of prying and tedious wrenching but it finally came off. I have the new one in place, but not fully bolted on yet. Since i cut one of the bolts, i might just use three of the four.

also, a few rubber o-rings came with the new box. Anyone have a suggestion on where those go? My guess is where the two tubes coming down from the pump go in the box, but there are three o-rings. 2 small and 1 large.
 
hwgates said:
Since i cut one of the bolts, i might just use three of the four.
Click to expand...


Good plan.:rolleyes:

at least get a stud and a few lock nuts.
 
jesterb said:
Good plan.:rolleyes:

at least get a stud and a few lock nuts.
Click to expand...

would have done that eventually but i went ahead and did.

I got the new box all bolted on. I thought i was about done but then something I had thought might happen... happened. :whoops:

My wheels turn too far one way and not enough the other. I think I might be able to fix it by turning the steering wheel and taking the pitman arm off and on again a quarter turn. I will try this, but are there any tricks to getting everything lined up just right?
 
With the pitman arm removed, cycle the gear in one direction all the way till it stops. Mark the shaft and housing with a line. Then cycle the gear in the opposite direction counting how many times the marks line up until it reaches the opposite end. Divide by 2 and cycle the gear that amount in the other direction and you are now in the middle of the gear's sweep. Mount the pitman arm with the wheels pointed straight ahead. That should do it, right?

Saginaw gears come in 3 and 4 turn varieties. Hopefully you have a 4-turn. I have read that they are less twitchy at higher speed.

Keep us posted.
 
So, did you use 3 or 4 bolts to put it back on? Don't cut any corners when it comes to the steering. Your life aint worth it.

Later,
 
Reading this a bit late, but the answer to strong socket head cap screws - for yall's future edification - is buy some SPS Unbrako brand. These things are ~ 180 - 190 KSI in the alloy steel version, nice step up over a Grade 8 fastener. It's a pretty common thing for an industrial supply place, just not generally on the shelf at the local corner shop - not even Monkey Hardware. Holokrome brand's the next best. Washers are nice touch w/ these - hardened ones are better - someone who's around military planes and such might locate a few MS21299 countersinks.
 
TroutBear said:
Reading this a bit late, but the answer to strong socket head cap screws - for yall's future edification - is buy some SPS Unbrako brand. These things are ~ 180 - 190 KSI in the alloy steel version, nice step up over a Grade 8 fastener. It's a pretty common thing for an industrial supply place, just not generally on the shelf at the local corner shop - not even Monkey Hardware. Holokrome brand's the next best. Washers are nice touch w/ these - hardened ones are better - someone who's around military planes and such might locate a few MS21299 countersinks.
Click to expand...


Can you translate that to redneck for us?
 
Stronger bolts is like using an ARB or Crosby shackle instead of one of them offshore knockoff things, specially when it's on sumthing of modest importance youse hoping stays put. There's this company up North [sorry, they is where they is] that does some near magical things to metal to get little screws to clamp down all solid like big bolts does - even for those who forgot to "borrow" the torque wrench from work that evening cause they were concertrating on a cold beer and walked right past that tool box.

Being that they're so small and all, there just ain't much flange on them suckers - so smart folks slip a washer under them to spread the load - it's kinda like airing down to get so more size outa them tires, sorta like that anyways. Real gurus do a special mod to washers just to keep edges from digging in - call it chamfering, but anyone with a big drill bit and a little time can get in on the secret - smooths out that load path like porting and polishing an engine block smooths out air.

More ksi's is better - up to a point [that's the magic part] - so Grade 12.9 beats Grade 8 most any day.

Unbrako Fasteners
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I ended up having to cut off another screw so I am only using two of the originals that were on there. I went to the harware store and got a couple of new screws and bolts to use but they are not screwing into the stearing box threads. Instead they are a little thinner and longer so I could put a bolt on the other side. I also used a few locking washers to thicken it up a bit.

The box seems pretty sturdy, but from ya'lls comments it sounds like this is a bad idea? I guess it would be fine for street driving but not for crawling.
 
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