Road Bike Suggestions - school me on carbon frames

[Jetboy]

I want to buy a roadbike. I haven't found any good bikes used locally in a good size for me. I'm 6'2, and about 215lbs. Not in fantastic shape, but I have run a marathon this summer. I'm a bout a 8 min pace runner, so I guess I'm in average condition.

I currently have a mountain bike I bought from bikes direct. I know they have "issues" with image, but the bike I have has been solid. I'm mechanically inclined and wrench on my bike, so I don't really need LBS support. The bike I've been riding is a 29er and I ride it in the mountains and also commute a day or two a week with some 35mm road tires. I also have a 70's Windsor lugged steel frame that I completely rebuilt with flat bars. It's fun, and pretty nice looking, but not very efficient and with old suntour parts it's kinda limited unless I really want to go for a total drive train upgrade.

I'd also like to do more weekend road biking. I do not plan to race. Just ride for fun and possibly commute on the road bike. I'd like to do some distance rides like LOTAJA with friends.

Here's the options I've been kicking around. I'd love to have any opinions from people who've ridden any of these bikes or do or don't like something about them.

Litespeed M1 ($1449 plus $100 shipping) http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=PRODUCT&OPTION=LOAD_PRODUCT_BY_ID&PRODUCT.ID=9479

Cavalo w/ SRAM Force ($1450 plus ? shipping) http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_524782_-1_202695_10000_202339

Motobecane Le Champ CF ($1599 shipped) comes in either SRAM Rival or Ultegra for that price http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/lechamp_cf_rival.htm

Or a Motobecane Ti bike ($1599) http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/lechamp_ti_heat_rival.htm


I'm really at a bit of a loss as to what direction I should be going. In the 61cm size, they all have basically the same geometry. The motobecane bikes have better accessory components, but I may be happier with a better frame if the other frames are better. I'd really love to hear any opinions of any of the bikes if you've ridden them or if one would be better than another for a heavy rider.

I also don't know much about carbon. I know generally how to lay it up. I've worked with fiberglass which is pretty similar in construction technique. I could probably build a carbon bike in my garage, but it would probably suck. I don't know why I should prefer 12k weave over 3k weave or visa-versa or what other factors I should be looking for.

I'm open to other suggestions as well. FWIW I do live in SLC, UT and will ride a lot of hills, so I'm leaning toward SRAM for the ability to use an Apex cassette and DR if I need it, but I think I'd do OK with a 12-28 and compact crank Shimano too.

Thanks

 

[CycloSteve]

Though I have not personally ridden those rigs, I have good experiences with both Carbon and Titanium as a material for bikes.

It really depends on what you are looking for in a bike with choosing the right ride. Titanium wins in my book with durability as I have a 15 year old Merlin frame with well over 20,000 miles on it (not kidding), and it still rides like day one, and looks pretty much like new. My latest road bike is a Calfee which was not cheap, but rides like a dream.

My advice is get the best bike frame you can for the money that you have, and get a good mid-level set of components (like Force, or Chorus, or Ultegra). The right frame will last 20 years, and the components will need upgrading/replacing at some point. Try and stay clear of any off-brands if possible.



Steve

 

[Kent]

Agree with Steve, get a good frame. I have an aluminum frame with carbon fork and seat stays. It's light, rides nice and has been reliable. Some things you will notice about different materials...

Carbon - light and STIFF. Doesn't transmit road vibration too much. Very efficient. Keep in mind stiff means no flex so you will feel all the cracks and pavement faults. Durability used to be questionable but on a road bike and the newer epoxies that's probably not much of an issue. $$$$

Steel - heavier and more compliant. Ride won't be as "harsh" but weight will be your penalty. Long lasting. $

Ti - more forgiving than carbon, lighter than steel. Good durability. $$$

Aluminum - Stiffer than steel, lighter than steel. Durability prob slightly less than steel and Ti. $$

Have fun

 

[Jetboy]

So I called up Nashbar to ask about the Cavalo frames. I've read on another forum that they are Fuji frames, but Nashbar wouldn't verify that or tell me which factory they were made in other than that it was in a "well respected builder Taiwan." They also said hi modulus carbon and the frame weighs about 950 grams. And it was on the stiffer side of carbon frames. I'm thinking that's probably a good thing for me being a heavier rider.

The Cavalo seems to have the best wheels of the various bikes. Otherwise components aren't all that much different.

The litespeed certainly has more unique frame design.

 

[carboncycles]

Couple of additional comments to the ones posted.

I would highly recommend you to ride each of the bikes (if possible). Choosing a bike by material properties can be very difficult especially if you are still new to riding.

Carbon frames can be constructed in a multitude of ways that can vastly effect ride and durability. I personally find carbon frames to be somewhat lifeless. It's interesting to see litespeed playing with carbon in that they originally started as a titanium frame manufacturer.

Titanium is my favorite material by far, but unfortunately, it's no longer vogue or hip. Titanium to me has a lively springy feel that transmits road feel, but provides a very comfortable ride. There are two types (maybe more since I've stopped seriously riding years ago) of Ti (3/2 and 6/4). 3/2 is the most common material used in that 6/4 used to be made in sheets and then welded into a tube, but last I heard, companies were starting to play with tube drawn 6/4. Ti has some of the best corrosion and durability IMO. I've laid down a nice frame or two, and other than broken components, the frames came out unscathed.

Most of the major frame makers use Taiwanese shops to make their frames. So, it's not a big deal, but I do try to buy USA if possible.

Components, I recommend you to avoid Durace and Record (or SRAM's elite level) because of cost and durability....race components are stupid light, but you will pay a premium.

Finally, get out and ride...just keep the sticky side down and stay safe!

 

[MANUCHAO]

I run a Bianchi carbon frame with Centaur components.. 3 years later still going strong... I only had to replace cassette and chain... but otherwise great bike...
With those prices.. you could get a used carbon frame bike with great components...

Stay away from any Taiwan made frames...

Good luck ..!!

 

[orionkhan]

I run a Bianchi carbon frame with Centaur components.. 3 years later still going strong... I only had to replace cassette and chain... but otherwise great bike...
With those prices.. you could get a used carbon frame bike with great components...

Stay away from any Taiwan made frames...

Good luck ..!!

Nonsense. I ride a Specialized S-Works E5 frame that has been excellent. My wife's Giant was also made in Taiwan. Now I would be very wary of the cheap no-name-off-brand eBay Taiwanese made frames. And I probably would not buy one unless I knew someone who had purchased and tested one first. You never know about the quality control of those. But to say "any Taiwan made frames" is just to generalized and faulty advice.

 

[Kent]

There aren't that many frame manufacturers - most of the "brand name" frames were probably made in the same factory in Taiwan. If you want a custom frame you're going to have to go to a smaller company that makes them in house (Moots, Ventana etc). I have 3 older Kleins that were made here but sadly Klein Made in USA is no more

Specialized, Trek and Giant are all good frames but not made in USA. Any of those 3 could get you a nice carbon frame.

 

[Jetboy]

I run a Bianchi carbon frame with Centaur components.. 3 years later still going strong... I only had to replace cassette and chain... but otherwise great bike...
With those prices.. you could get a used carbon frame bike with great components...

Stay away from any Taiwan made frames...

Good luck ..!!

FWIW I believe Hodaka builds most Bianchi frames in Taiwan now.

I've been looking at used bikes, but I never seem to see any good 60-62cm frames used for a decent price. I have seen some good prices on used components, so I suppose I could buy a frame and build it up, but even used it's hard to put together a complete bike for less than a new one.

 

[Jetboy]

Also after a bit more research, it's pretty obvious that the Cavalo are Fuji SL frames with their lower level of hi modulus carbon. (not the SL-1, which is Fuji's ultra light frame)


Another question, while we're at it. I have an old lugged steel frame 10 speed (5 speed rear cassette). I might be interested in making it more commuter rideable. This wouldn't replace the road bike. I could pick up used drive train for relatively cheap. My biggest question is whether the bottom bracket of a modern crank set would be compatible? Anyone know off the top of your head?

 

[orionkhan]

There aren't that many frame manufacturers - most of the "brand name" frames were probably made in the same factory in Taiwan. If you want a custom frame you're going to have to go to a smaller company that makes them in house (Moots, Ventana etc). I have 3 older Kleins that were made here but sadly Klein Made in USA is no more

Specialized, Trek and Giant are all good frames but not made in USA. Any of those 3 could get you a nice carbon frame.

Yes, unfortunately, its not easy to find a bike made in the USA at a reasonable price.

 

[carboncycles]

Also after a bit more research, it's pretty obvious that the Cavalo are Fuji SL frames with their lower level of hi modulus carbon. (not the SL-1, which is Fuji's ultra light frame)


Another question, while we're at it. I have an old lugged steel frame 10 speed (5 speed rear cassette). I might be interested in making it more commuter rideable. This wouldn't replace the road bike. I could pick up used drive train for relatively cheap. My biggest question is whether the bottom bracket of a modern crank set would be compatible? Anyone know off the top of your head?

Don't sweat who makes it or what it's made of, especially if it's a cookie cutter bike meant for riding for enjoyment.

Steel is a great material, and your bottom bracket question should be fine. You can always take it into your lBS to verify the type of BB used. Actually, you could turn your old bike into a fixed gear / SS cruiser...fun bike to ride.

 

[MANUCHAO]

FWIW I believe Hodaka builds most Bianchi frames in Taiwan now.

Unfortunately that is true.....
Key word being "most"....

 

[Jetboy]

Don't sweat who makes it or what it's made of, especially if it's a cookie cutter bike meant for riding for enjoyment.

Steel is a great material, and your bottom bracket question should be fine. You can always take it into your lBS to verify the type of BB used. Actually, you could turn your old bike into a fixed gear / SS cruiser...fun bike to ride.

I'm not sure I'd get far on a SS where i live. I live in Cayon Rim by SLC, UT. Basically I'm on a hill near the base of the mountains. Pretty much no matter where I go it's a hill. I think I'll need the gearing to get home.

I'm kinda stuck with Shimano as I built the two bikes (wife has a similar one) with shimano integrated shift/break set ups. I actually had a thread on them back when I painted them a couple years ago. I haven't really done much since then. https://forum.ih8mud.com/bicycling/331708-painting-steel-frame-road-bike.html I put a few hundred miles on, but then bought my 29er which really does everything better. The 40yr old running gear just isn't very efficient.

I was thinking I could find a set of 105 take offs or something like plus some decent 700c wheels and make it more streetable. As it is now it has steel rims that are both heavy and hard to keep true. Even some cheap 700c wheels should be a lot better.

Either way I think I'm still wanting to get a entry level road bike for weekend riding. I just want to make sure I get something that I won't outgrow in a year.

 

[Jetboy]

Ended up buying the Bikes Direct titanium Rival bike. It was a HUGE PITA to get the bike from UPS. Basically timing was poor and I couldn't be home for delivery or make it to a warehouse during the hours they are open, they screwed TWICE when I had someone who could pick it up and missed the truck the first time, and put it on the wrong delivery truck the second time. For a company that sells "logistics" they surely left something to be desired when trying to deliver this bike.


After assembly I'm generally Pleased. Welds look great. Assembly was pretty simple. All the cables were installed and the rear triangle was all set up. Just had to put the bars on the stem and re-align the stem as it was off, then tune everything. Also had to install the seat and post, put the pedals on, and cleats on my shoes. I probably spend an hour unpacking and setting up. One of the quick release levers was scuffed from shipping. NBD.

The Rival components are simple. Ti frame with carbon fork seems to ride nicely. I was surprised at how much shape was put into the tubes as they appear round in the pictures. Bike came with 105 pedals and cleats, I plan to stick with them for now.

Downsides: Wheels are Mavic Aksium and are kinda heavy. Total bike on my scale with pedals was 18.6lbs. In the range of what was advertised. (59cm size). Came with a KMC superlite chain. I blew up my KMC MTB chain last week after less than 1k miles. Granted I'm a clyde, it was considerably stretched, and I was a bit disappointed in its durability. I'll watch this one closely and probably replace as soon as there's any sign of wear. Might just replace anyway.


I notice just a small bit of flex climbing. I can't feel it so much as I can hear a change in the sound of the chain. It doesn't rub, but it just sounds a bit different. I'll need to get more miles on it before I can really evaluate.

 

[carboncycles]

You will love TI.

Heavier wheels are great to train on, especially if this is going to be a cruiser. The flex you are describing could be one of the two: 1) front derailer needs slight tweaking 2) bottom bracket/cranks could be flexing instead of the frame. TI has a springy feel to it, and IMO lot more forgiving of a ride (yet stiff and compliant enough to ride on rails)

 

[Jetboy]

You will love TI.

Heavier wheels are great to train on, especially if this is going to be a cruiser. The flex you are describing could be one of the two: 1) front derailer needs slight tweaking 2) bottom bracket/cranks could be flexing instead of the frame. TI has a springy feel to it, and IMO lot more forgiving of a ride (yet stiff and compliant enough to ride on rails)

Can an experienced rider identify where the flex is? I know I can't, but this is the first real road bike I've ever owned.

I think the noise is coming possibly from the engagement on the front ring or possibly touching the next ring on the rear cassette. The front has trim adjustment, I just re-aligned everything last night and it has a good amount of clearance so long as the trim is adjusted to match the gear on the cassette. It actually took a minute to figure out what was going on and why there were more than two positions for the FD. I thought to myself that they must have put a tripple specific shifter on by accident, but once I figured it out it seems pretty straight forward.

I think Ti was the best choice for me as I plan to use as a daily commuter for 90% of the miles. It's nice because of the durability and at 215lbs I'm not sure saving 1 or 2 lbs of frame is a big deal. Plus it looks cheap because it's uncoated brushed with no sexy paint scheme. It won't be a hot target for a bike thief if I lock it up for a few minutes to run into a grocery store.

I'm not sure bikes direct builds the best Ti frame, time will tell on that one. Unfortunately I didn't have the budget for a $$$ bike and for $1600 I didn't find a better bike locally used.

My wife is also going to buy a roadbike, so if I like it we may buy another for her. I'm more inclined to buy one for her locally though because there seem to be be better deals in her size.

 

[kevcruiser]

Frames with bottom bracket flex will most often rub the chain against the inside of the front deraileur while being under load. Try adjusting the front deraileur first. Also the inner chainring might be too close to the outer, and the chain will rub against the big ring. If your cranks have removable chainrings, you can add some very thin washers in between the chainrings to give the chain more space.

 

[Jetboy]

Frames with bottom bracket flex will most often rub the chain against the inside of the front deraileur while being under load. Try adjusting the front deraileur first. Also the inner chainring might be too close to the outer, and the chain will rub against the big ring. If your cranks have removable chainrings, you can add some very thin washers in between the chainrings to give the chain more space.

I think it was a rub on the FD. I've got it pretty dialed in now and the only noise I get is something like a tight link. I get a click as the chain goes around. I can't seem to sort it out though. I'm going to put in on the stand today and see what I can figure out.

Not sure if anyone's had this problem before, but I have a hard time getting the derailleur set up on the small ring and still get all 10 gears to run silently. The big ring is simple because it has the trim adjustment on the big ring, but not the small one. I think it would actually be better on the small one as I have no issues on the big ring.

 

[carboncycles]

^^Try not to cross your gears in that pattern. It causes undue stress/wear on your chain and gears. You should ride using your big rings up front divided between the cogs in back. Ex. small front ring used for first half of larger rings in back and big front ring for remainder in back.