Fj80oregon
GOLD Star
If you need a AFM message me I have a spare,
Won’t be cheep!!!
Won’t be cheep!!!
NO CEL/ CRANK NO START
- Thread starter eevrek
- Start date
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My crank but no start saga……
1997 Land Cruiser, 180k miles, not a daily driver
No alarm or other major electrical mods have been done to it
Owned since 2005 when I purchased it with 77k miles
Thousands of miles of off road/washboards all across the Western USA since I purchased her
My first occurrence of crank but no start was on a Presidents Day run in Southern Utah with a group of LC enthusiasts from the Copper State Cruiser club out of Phoenix
It was early morning, engine cold and she would not start, but it cranked like heck
We replaced the Fusible Link wire bundle (90982—08264), the Fusible Link Plastic Block & small nut & large nut (82670-60040 & 90179-06158 & 90080-18070), the 50A AM1 Fuse (90982-08227), the EFI Relay (90987-02004) and the 60A ABS fuse (90982-08190).
The truck started and made it through the trip w/o further issues.
Took the truck to Higgys in Mesa for a Steering Box and Steering Pump replacements for leaks. Scott, who is a Toyota Certified Master Mechanic, had the second occurrence of the no-start issue when he took it to the alignment shop post steering work and it would not restart. At that time, he troubleshot the crank no start issue and installed a bladed jumper to direct wire pins 2 and 4 on the EFI relay to get the truck back to his shop.
He continued to T-Shoot the issue and he stated that he found some corrosion on the large gray connector near the steering fluid reservoir.
Scott cleaned that connector up and the reinstalled the EFI Main Relay and the truck started w/o issue. It continued to start for the next month+ when I used it infrequently.
Come last week, myself and the same CSC Group did the Nevada BDR with hundreds of miles of washboard and rough rocky road. The truck was beat to heck by the trail. Mid-week, I again suffered a no start issue. Since I had that bladed jumper in my glove box, I decided to install that on the EFI Main pins 2 and 4 and she started right up. We also measured the voltage on pins 1 and 3 and found that it was only seeing ~8.6VDC, not enough to engage the relay. The voltage there should be 12VDC when the truck starts up
Throughout the week I would remove the jumper, install the EFI Main Relay and she would start up off and on. The last 3 days of the trip she failed to start with the EFI Main Relay installed so I just left the bladed jumper installed and she never failed to start.
I get home and the troubleshooting begins using so much good info gleaned off of iH8MUD and direct support from @Saddletramp here on MUD :
-Please note, I did NOT have a CEL when turning the key but with the bladed jumper on the Main EFI Relay, the truck would start even though no CEL was illuminated…..
-Measured Pins 1 and 3 on the EFI Main Relay : ~8.6VDC with key turned to ON but not started
-Installed a new cranking battery – no fix
-Replaced Main EFI Relay ( 90987-02004) : no fix
-Removed the MAF connector to see if this would reset the CEL /codes – no fix. MAF good.
-Removed and replaced the 15A EFI Blade Fuse in the engine compartment relay box for 1 minute to reset the ECU Codes – no fix
-Removed the ground on the back of the intake to check the ground cable/connection, sanded down the contact points and re-installed – no fix
-Check all grounds in the engine compartment (battery, body, etc) – no issue found, all ohm’d out
-Installed new battery terminals and ensured good connections – no fix
-Replaced rotor and spark plug wires with new – No fix (dist cap was good)
-Pulled grey 1-wire connector that Higgys found corroded and sanded down connections and ensured that male and female plugs was tight when reconnecting = no fix
-Loosened engine compartment relay/fuse block from mount and twisted the box and shook the wire loom to see if the ~8.6VDC on the EFI Main Relay pins 1 and 3 would change indicating a damaged/shorting cable – nothing found. No fix. Voltage remained steady at ~8.6VDC. Inspected wires in the relay box with a flashlight, no damage/issue seen
-Jiggled the wire loom by the injector area and watched the EFI Main Voltage Pins 1 and 3, steady at ~8.6VDC. Wire loom good indicating no damaged wires were likely
-Checked CEL voltage of DIAG Port pins 3&12 and found 12VDC so that was good
-Replaced the 7.5A EFI Fuse in the left drivers knee area – no fix
-Pulled the passenger speaker cover to inspect the ECU connectors/wiring for possible rodent damage. None found. Checked the connectors on the ECU and I found the connector on the right side (22P in the picture below) was ½ way dislodged. I pushed in the connector and my CEL was back and the truck started like normal. PLEASE NOTE, I had removed the bladed jumper and reinstalled the EFI Main Relay during this troubleshooting so everything in the relay box in the engine compartment was as shipped from Toyota.
The loose 22P connector was the root cause of my issue as far as I am concerned. That connector carries critical signals used by the ECU to be in its ready state:
I pulled the EFI main Relay and measured pins 1 and 3 with the key in the on position and I was now getting 12VDC, which was to be expected to engage the EFI relay. The truck continues to start without issue. Took her out for a long drive to heat it up and then turned if off and restarted several more times and I did not have any issue. At this time, I am calling the loose connector P22 on the ECU, which carries the MRLY signal, as the issue. This loose connector was either a factory issue (not properly seated and it finally came loose) or it was the endless washboard roads that I drove on in Feb in Utah and before that which somehow caused that connector to shake loose. In all of my years of ownership of this truck, I had never messed with the ECU or any of the wire bundles that connect to it. Also, I found no evidence that the previous owner had been in there either.
In summary, if you have a crank but no start, an easy check is to pull the pass speaker cover and verify the 4 connectors at the bottom of the ECU are fully seated. Also, carry the spares noted above in your glovebox as mentioned in this post and endless other crank no start posts here on MUD
1997 Land Cruiser, 180k miles, not a daily driver
No alarm or other major electrical mods have been done to it
Owned since 2005 when I purchased it with 77k miles
Thousands of miles of off road/washboards all across the Western USA since I purchased her
My first occurrence of crank but no start was on a Presidents Day run in Southern Utah with a group of LC enthusiasts from the Copper State Cruiser club out of Phoenix
It was early morning, engine cold and she would not start, but it cranked like heck
We replaced the Fusible Link wire bundle (90982—08264), the Fusible Link Plastic Block & small nut & large nut (82670-60040 & 90179-06158 & 90080-18070), the 50A AM1 Fuse (90982-08227), the EFI Relay (90987-02004) and the 60A ABS fuse (90982-08190).
The truck started and made it through the trip w/o further issues.
Took the truck to Higgys in Mesa for a Steering Box and Steering Pump replacements for leaks. Scott, who is a Toyota Certified Master Mechanic, had the second occurrence of the no-start issue when he took it to the alignment shop post steering work and it would not restart. At that time, he troubleshot the crank no start issue and installed a bladed jumper to direct wire pins 2 and 4 on the EFI relay to get the truck back to his shop.
He continued to T-Shoot the issue and he stated that he found some corrosion on the large gray connector near the steering fluid reservoir.
Scott cleaned that connector up and the reinstalled the EFI Main Relay and the truck started w/o issue. It continued to start for the next month+ when I used it infrequently.
Come last week, myself and the same CSC Group did the Nevada BDR with hundreds of miles of washboard and rough rocky road. The truck was beat to heck by the trail. Mid-week, I again suffered a no start issue. Since I had that bladed jumper in my glove box, I decided to install that on the EFI Main pins 2 and 4 and she started right up. We also measured the voltage on pins 1 and 3 and found that it was only seeing ~8.6VDC, not enough to engage the relay. The voltage there should be 12VDC when the truck starts up
Throughout the week I would remove the jumper, install the EFI Main Relay and she would start up off and on. The last 3 days of the trip she failed to start with the EFI Main Relay installed so I just left the bladed jumper installed and she never failed to start.
I get home and the troubleshooting begins using so much good info gleaned off of iH8MUD and direct support from @Saddletramp here on MUD :
-Please note, I did NOT have a CEL when turning the key but with the bladed jumper on the Main EFI Relay, the truck would start even though no CEL was illuminated…..
-Measured Pins 1 and 3 on the EFI Main Relay : ~8.6VDC with key turned to ON but not started
-Installed a new cranking battery – no fix
-Replaced Main EFI Relay ( 90987-02004) : no fix
-Removed the MAF connector to see if this would reset the CEL /codes – no fix. MAF good.
-Removed and replaced the 15A EFI Blade Fuse in the engine compartment relay box for 1 minute to reset the ECU Codes – no fix
-Removed the ground on the back of the intake to check the ground cable/connection, sanded down the contact points and re-installed – no fix
-Check all grounds in the engine compartment (battery, body, etc) – no issue found, all ohm’d out
-Installed new battery terminals and ensured good connections – no fix
-Replaced rotor and spark plug wires with new – No fix (dist cap was good)
-Pulled grey 1-wire connector that Higgys found corroded and sanded down connections and ensured that male and female plugs was tight when reconnecting = no fix
-Loosened engine compartment relay/fuse block from mount and twisted the box and shook the wire loom to see if the ~8.6VDC on the EFI Main Relay pins 1 and 3 would change indicating a damaged/shorting cable – nothing found. No fix. Voltage remained steady at ~8.6VDC. Inspected wires in the relay box with a flashlight, no damage/issue seen
-Jiggled the wire loom by the injector area and watched the EFI Main Voltage Pins 1 and 3, steady at ~8.6VDC. Wire loom good indicating no damaged wires were likely
-Checked CEL voltage of DIAG Port pins 3&12 and found 12VDC so that was good
-Replaced the 7.5A EFI Fuse in the left drivers knee area – no fix
-Pulled the passenger speaker cover to inspect the ECU connectors/wiring for possible rodent damage. None found. Checked the connectors on the ECU and I found the connector on the right side (22P in the picture below) was ½ way dislodged. I pushed in the connector and my CEL was back and the truck started like normal. PLEASE NOTE, I had removed the bladed jumper and reinstalled the EFI Main Relay during this troubleshooting so everything in the relay box in the engine compartment was as shipped from Toyota.
The loose 22P connector was the root cause of my issue as far as I am concerned. That connector carries critical signals used by the ECU to be in its ready state:
I pulled the EFI main Relay and measured pins 1 and 3 with the key in the on position and I was now getting 12VDC, which was to be expected to engage the EFI relay. The truck continues to start without issue. Took her out for a long drive to heat it up and then turned if off and restarted several more times and I did not have any issue. At this time, I am calling the loose connector P22 on the ECU, which carries the MRLY signal, as the issue. This loose connector was either a factory issue (not properly seated and it finally came loose) or it was the endless washboard roads that I drove on in Feb in Utah and before that which somehow caused that connector to shake loose. In all of my years of ownership of this truck, I had never messed with the ECU or any of the wire bundles that connect to it. Also, I found no evidence that the previous owner had been in there either.
In summary, if you have a crank but no start, an easy check is to pull the pass speaker cover and verify the 4 connectors at the bottom of the ECU are fully seated. Also, carry the spares noted above in your glovebox as mentioned in this post and endless other crank no start posts here on MUD
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Nice write up Pete. I think the pins with the low voltage were 1 and 3. We got 12+ volts on 2 and 4.
@medtro
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Thanks Steve. You are 100% correct. Updated my original post.