Looking for advise: Sell the cruiser for gas mileage

[carson7]

Here is my situation:

My wife drives a 99 with 104k on it. We bought used at 68K.

Repairs since we have owned: Starter contacts, throttle body sensor, tailgate cables.

It needs: Timing belt service, tires, leather repair, lumbar motor, antenna motor, rear wiper repair.

The main reason I bought this vehicle - Toyota quality and safety. That and I thought it would hold its resell better than a new domestic suv.

My wife is the daily driver of this vehicle, and it sees 98% paved roads. I take it off road from time to time, but have a 4wd tundra for hunting, work, etc. My wife likes to visit family two hours away, and we average 14-15mpg.

After hearing me moan every month at our gas bill, my wife has agreed that she would drive an suv that gets better mpg - either a new crv, used mdx, or one of the small lexus models.

My dilemma: The tlc is paid for, and after I do the above repairs it should go to 150k with no problems. It takes a lot of gas savings to justify a new car purchase.

I have owned 5 toyotas, and although this one has caused the most problems, I am still a huge fan of toyota engineering and build quality.

Now that gas prices are down to 2.19 in our area, I can likely peddle this thing. My fear is that in 12 months if gas goes back to $3 I will never get rid of it.

Any thoughts or observations?

 

[Jim_Chow]

Just buy an econo-box as a DD and save the LC for weekend R&R. My LX only gets driven on the weekends, primarily for day trips or road trips, so fuel economy isn't a big deal. Plus it gets over 19mpg on the interstate. My DD is a 20 yr old 4runner, gets about 20-23.5 mpg depending on the season. The CRV doesn't give that great economy; my father's '00 only gets around 20-22 mpg w/ mixed driving.

Do you have any lift or big tires that could be dragging down the fuel economy? It never saves to sell a car just for fuel economy unless it keeps breaking down, as it's the repair bills that really drive up the cost of vehicle ownership after the payments are over, or unless you drive like 500+ mi/wk w/ no passengers. And if you sold now w/o doing the t-belt, chances are you'd have to factor that into the price, so no gain there.

BTW, starting for '08 models, the EPA is updating their fuel economy computing procedure to reflect more modern driving speeds (instead of 55mph) and engine displacements (i.e., you'll see the EPA economy drop).

 

[carson7]

no lift - everything is oem including tires.

That is awesome that you get 19.. any tricks?

love the dd idea, but wife is toting around our 5 month old - most econo's dont get you much in the way of safety. The new crv is rated at 22/28, and has gotten high safety ratings. That and I dont think I could save enough to cover another property tax/license/maint/insurance cost as well as the added depreciation of a 3rd vehicle.

agree with you on the gas savings vs cost of new car. Guess I am bearish about the future value of this unit when gas goes back to $3.

 

[e9999]

well, if you get a used car, you have all the uncertainties about condition etc again. That's a big pain or unknown.

On a new one, you'll take a big hit as soon as you've left the dealership. Would take a long time to recover that as gas savings. Plus insurance will be higher.

A 99 is already under $20K likely. Even if gas goes up a lot, you might lose a few Ks at the most in resale value. You'd lose that much right away as depreciation on a new vehicle I would think.

Just work out the numbers.

 

[lancaster]

Okay...

Time for a little math exercise:

Lets assume:

1) The average price of gas over the next three years is $2.50/gal
2) You drive 12,000 miles a year
3) You get $16,000 for your LC
4) You pay $25,000 for its replacement
5) Your replacement car gets 22 mpg average
6) Your LC gets 15 mpg average
7) Repairs/service are equal
8) When do you break even?

$2.50per gal/15 gal per mile X 12,000 miles per year = $2,000 gas/yr

$2.50per gal/22 gal per mile x 12,000 miles per yer = $1,364 gas/yr

Difference = $636.36 / year for gas
Car cost difference = $22K-$16K = $6,000/$636.36 = 9.43 years

That's a long time.

For $600 a year - I'd want to drive my LX.

 

[carson7]

good math. A few factors to consider..

to get the next 50K out of either vehicle will require tires/fan belt for the tlc - lets say I can get that done for 1k by doing the work myself.

also, the very subjective cost associated with having a 100k+ vehicle. I am probaly just a little gun shy since my tlc has left my wife sitting two hours away from me with a clicking starter (contacts) and a freaked out call when the tps failed on the interstate (went into limp mode). Both of which happened before 85K.

Good feedback from all - this is what I was looking for - some good discussions about my options!

 

[e9999]

oh, and the state tax on the new truck (if you are in a state), don't forget that!

 

[jditom]

Okay...

Time for a little math exercise:

Lets assume:

1) The average price of gas over the next three years is $2.50/gal
2) You drive 12,000 miles a year
3) You get $16,000 for your LC
4) You pay $25,000 for its replacement
5) Your replacement car gets 22 mpg average
6) Your LC gets 15 mpg average
7) Repairs/service are equal
8) When do you break even?

$2.50per gal/15 gal per mile X 12,000 miles per year = $2,000 gas/yr

$2.50per gal/22 gal per mile x 12,000 miles per yer = $1,364 gas/yr

Difference = $636.36 / year for gas
Car cost difference = $22K-$16K = $6,000/$636.36 = 9.43 years

That's a long time.

For $600 a year - I'd want to drive my LX.

Agree, I get 18-19 highway 60-70 mph.

I would keep the LC and invest in some plugs, d cap, wires and even O2 sensors to up you mpg's. And make sure you have proper air pressure in your tires. I tend to go 2-4 lbs higher than recomended since I like firmer ride.

 

[D'Animal]

In 1988 I bought a new 1988 Toyota V-6 4x4 extended cab SR5. I did the regular maintenance on it plus replaced clutch once. I sold it in 1996 with 280k miles on it for what I paid for it in 1988. They guy who bought it is still driving it today. Most people get rid of thier Toyotas because they are tired of looking at them, not because they are worn out.

Anything you buy needs maintenance. Tires and a new belt is no big thing. That is just routine maintenance. You know what you have right now and you know what it needs. Just because a vehicle is new or newer doesn't mean it's better. If you are looking for total fuel savings look at a Prius hybred. The cost of any of the hybreds will never pay for itself through out the life of the car. I quit believing the posted mpg on new cars a long time a go.

 

[LXPearl]

I would think real hard before giving up the LC. I did so on my first LC because I saw the repair costs looming and thought a new more efficient minivan would be a good answer. However, after driving the LC, everything else is compared to a higher standard than before the LC. The mileage gains were minimal (3-4 mpg) in the real world, regardless of the sticker claims of +10. Visibility and comfort were reduced, other people ignored it on the road (cut in front all the time), and it just seemed to attract parking lot dings, road damage, etc. Also, the new models tend to have throttle lag issues that are irritating. Feature-wise the new minivan was excellent, however, their real life functions were not very satisfying - because the ones the LC had were so much better. My wife got to where she could not stand the minivan, felt unsafe, and worried about the next "incident" to happen. It became advantageous to dump the new vehicle and look for an older 100.

It is hard to evaluate the total effect of a vehicle, but the solid (over) build of the LC and the quality of its construction is world class. At 104K, the LC is still young in its life and the maintenance is not much different than you would face with the newer vehicles within several years.

If you want a different vehicle, you may look at an 03 LC/LX with the 5 spd. This may give peace of mind and slightly better mpg. Otherwise, some have done better on mileage by using premium gas and slowing down below 70 mph, though for some there has been little difference with gas or speed below 75. I got about 14 mpg mixed driving with the LC on 87 and get about 15 on premium with the LX. Trips are highly variable depending on wind, speed, road, load, etc. but I typically can get 15-17 mpg, sometimes as much as 20.

If possible, I would recommend keeping the LC for trips, family outings, bad weather, etc. and buy a used econo car for a DD for mileage concerns. This reduces depreciation, keeps taxes low, etc. and maximizes your flexibility. I would not recommend getting rid of an LC for mileage.

 

[Jim_Chow]

no lift - everything is oem including tires.

That is awesome that you get 19.. any tricks?

[snip]

Lets see, right now, the rig is at 56.5K mi, all stock except the ARB sahara bar and kaymar rear bar. Stock tires (bridgestone HT's).

1) Chevron 91 octane gas (get 10-15% better economy than 87 'cause you need less throttle to get up to speed). Doing the math, the 20 cent increased price of 91 over 87 is offset by the increased fuel gains.
2) Light foot..gradual (slow & steady) acceleration, coast when slowing down before red lights. This also saves the brakes/rotors, minimizes engine wear.
3) Mobil 1 delvac 5w40 oil (or M1 0w40)--M1 10w30 drags my fuel economy down by 5-10%. Everything else is dino so far, but will go to M1 in the diffs/t-case soon.
4) Change air filter w/ OEM at least once a year (dusty here)
5) Set cruise to 2300 rpm (~ 70mph) on the interstate (this is with the 5spd). Keep rpm's under 2400-2500 (ie., speed is < 72mph). The sweet spot is really about 50-55mph for non-interstate highways due to less wind drag, optimal engine rpms (LC mag says the most efficiency is at 1800-2K rpm; they show a plot of fuel consumption vs rpms and it is concave/parabolic w/ a peak at 1.8-2K)
6) Push roof rack cross bars all the way aft & together (minimizes drag/noise since the flow is more turbulent in the rear of the vehicle)
7) Don't leave anything on the roof other than the OEM rails/cross bars (no ski racks, bike racks...these reduce economy by about 2 mpg).
8) Remove unnecessary weight from vehicle (i.e, 3rd row seats, tools you don't need when driving around town, etc.)

I wouldn't worry about having 100K mi on any toyota truck. My father thinks like that and gave me his 86 4runner (4 cyl) when it was 14 yrs old w/ 93K mi. I put about $12K into mods to keep it running (t-chain & radiator, ARB/Kaymar bars, sliders, tires/wheels, OME lift, regear, diff lock, recaros, header/cat-back exhaust, synthetic fluids, etc.). Now it's 20 yrs old w/ 198K mi, still going and gets 21-23 mpg. So that's 100K mi for $12K invested (you can barely get a KIA for that much, and I feel my 20 yr old runner is still more reliable than a new KIA )...not bad return so far.

The 100 starter contacts is a known issue and you should have had forewarning that it was about to go (i.e., wife should have told you it would sometimes click, but eventually start after a few attempts). The TPS is a known issue on the '98-99. Not much else other than exhaust manifolds and possibly the pump in the master cylinder (but virtually all the US-market toyota trucks use the electronic master these days).

 

["N8"]

Save the cruiser and get a chepo honda dd for the 2 hour trips.

 

[Jim_Chow]

Yep, that's what I suggested, buy an econo DD. My wife carts the baby around town in a honda prelude (26mpg). Civic will get much better economy (~35mpg?), but no sports car performance. Whatever you get, I would only consider a 4 cylinder. You take a huge hit going to 6 cylinders or more (accord V6 gets ~22mpg; add wind resistance and more weight of a MDX/Pilot and you are now around 17mpg).

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I feel for you right now. These decisions can be tough ones. I know you've experienced some expenses on maintenance and repairs. I'm going through that right now. At 110K I'm doing some "rebuilds" along with the typical maintenance. Around 100K a lot can come all at once. It makes one think about getting something else.

I couldn't even think about parting with my 2001 and that's despite me trashing it for 110K! It's cost me almost nothing until about the 90K mark. Once I get past the 100K-ish crap things will settle down and long periods of time I'll again spend nothing because IT'S A CRUISER.

At your mileage I'd fix what's needed and give it 6 more months and re-evaluate. If you do sell it you'll miss it.

Good luck!

 

[SWUtah]

Get a new or used 4runner. She will still be safe, maybe safer because of the traction control on the 4runner, better mpg with a little less room. A Toyota dealer might give you more for your 4runner for a trade but it is worth more like $14K as a trade. I traded a 99 LC that had 68K miles with the timing belt done all new hoses and belts, wheel bearing repack, and synthetic fluids throughout, plus new tires. I got $16K for real. The dealer might make you feel like you are getting more but you just got less of a discount on what you were buying. Selling it out right you might get more but I doubt it since when you get a vehicle that has over 100K miles on it and you want $16K for it not many people will be able or want to pay that amount. JMHO

 

[EdsCruisin]

The emotional factor is important for both you and your wife. I just bought an '05 4runner this weekend for my wife because our van was acting up. We have a very nice, loaded Chrysler T&C with AWD and only 80k miles, but it, rattles, started leaking oil and stalling. After two bouts with the dealer and mechanics it still stalls. It is probably the catalytic converter, but when considering the front end bushings (no longer effective), the oil seal, timing belt, etc. my wife had had enough. She doesn't trust it any more.

The 4Runner is a V8 too and gets about 19 mpg on the highway! That is better than the van and much more solid a vehicle. In contrast my LC gets about 15 on a good day with the same motor, but at 75k miles it seems like new compared to the Chrysler.

IMHO if you think that the repairs on the 100 will make it solidly dependable for 50k more miles, I would do that and amortize that cost over the next 5 years, factoring in the differential in gas. I would bet you would find it more economical than purchasing another vehicle. But keep in mind that if your spouse doesn't trust it, she will make your life miserable. Then you by a different DD. I have a nice van available.....

Good Luck

 

[NMuzj100]

Take the LC in for the PM it needs and get it detailed like a new car. Have them throw in the new car smell. Maybe get the wife a nice Sirus system, nav or a DVD player for the kids to make those long trips a little more pleasant. Making this a "new" car again will save you a bunch of money in the long run. Driving cars is cheap compared to trading cars.

Anything relatively safe and interstate worthy will be expensive and use gas. My Camry is about as small a car as I consider safe and and only gets about 21-23 mpg.

 

[uzj100]

I have been thinking of selling the 99, now that we also have a 00. I think I should sell the 99 LC for something that gets better mpg. I then think about how much I like the LC and I just can not bring myself around to do it. I consider older TD benzes and the 4runner. The 100 just fits. I even drive the 99 less than I use to now that we have a 00 as well. I believe this next year, I may put 10k miles on the 99, if that.

The 100 series should go down as one of the best all round vehicles ever built.

Now if I could just turn off the etc pwr buttom.

 

[EdsCruisin]

Now if I could just turn off the etc pwr buttom.

I thought that button was a "one-time only" item - Once you press it, you can't go back!

 

[dhula]

snip

Now that gas prices are down to 2.19 in our area, I can likely peddle this thing. My fear is that in 12 months if gas goes back to $3 I will never get rid of it.

$ 2.19 per gallon (US price) = $ 0.62 per litre (Australian)

$1.18 per litre (Aus price) = $ 4.95 per gallon (US)

or there abouts. You blokes are lucky I tell ya.

Anyhow back to the thread. I recon keep the LC as they are a nice car and you own it

Get a DD and your lovely lady can drive that each day to reduce petrol (gas) costs. Only thing is if you get another car, its more money to reg, insure, keep running etc.