KO2 vs Michelin LTX A/T2

[jwestpro]

I'm looking to replace the stock tire on my 2016 LC. They ride nice and are quiet but they are unsafe with any rain or snow unless going very slow.

Requirements
would like to keep stock wheels at this time
good highway ride (95% used on highway and around town)
low noise
off road ability, (nothing crazy, trails, fireroads etc.)
good in snow (DC / VA area light snow <6-8" , not looking for blizzack ability.)
would like to keep mpg close to stock

I've used Michelins in the past and am a fan. I'm looking at the LTX A/T2. They come in a few sizes, 285/65-18, 275/70-18, 275/65-18. They are E rated and I don't know how that would affect things.

I'm intrigued by KO2s also. I'm a little worried that they may be a little to aggressive with respect to noise and mpg. Like I said 95% of use is on road.

Does anyone have experience with both or have any insights?

You have to choose if you want:
A. some thing like the Michelin MS2: the best highway rain and snow use, "quiet ride", better mpg, lighter weight tire for lighter handling and braking, etc.
or
B. BFG AT KO2: best overall 'use anywhere anytime' with very high wear in my experience but heavier, noisier, lower mpg, less hgih speed canyon type cornering traction in rain, etc.

I have both .... I only use E load range, period. Why ....note sidewall cut above on the P tire. I like city parking by pulling in straight, up onto curb, drop in for parallel spot. No big deal with E side walls It's also better for towing or overloading the vehicle on trips. You have to know what's best for you though.

I tested the Michelin on a couple ORV parks out here in PNW wet, rocky, mostly gravel though so the Michelin MS2 was actually fine. Not many sharp edged things to worry about either. The tests made me realize I could do a lot of the big cross country trips on them and enjoy it's superb highway traits. In western states I often like to roll at least 80 mph....these are great even loaded to 8k lbs

 

[Haggis]

I had a couple set of the Michelins on my 4RunnerLTD. Great highway tire, "ok" for trails, fire roads. I decided to go KO2's E rated and could not be more pleased. The rating is perfect for the high LC weight. I still have my 2000 Tacoma and have never run anything but BFG KO's on her or my beloved 60.

 

[Swampmonger]

BFG KO2 is the best choice here....but on even a stock vehicle, I wouldn't want the weaker D load versions.

LOL - for what 'useful' purpose would you suggest wider? They would of course look cool but 285/55x20 isn't really very tall. The taller the tire, the better the air-down contact area. Width isn't as helpful in most situations and it usually makes things worse when compared to taller but narrower - within reason of course. This is because when aired down, a taller tire creates a longer contact area than the wider but slightly shorter tire which spreads out wide instead of long - the direction of travel is usually where you want the increase in bite, not the width.

I like his size idea for better ground clearance. If it were my choice, I'd want the 33.5" 285/60-20 which is also E load range. No way I'd use a D tire offroad especially with the shorter sidewalls. This 33.5" gains a little more sidewall too which will make it just fine on the highway even at top speeds due to it's sidewall strength but also work well under-inflated somewhat off road.

Most people upsizing also want to reduce the rubbing which a wider tire will only make worse.

He's not suggesting wider. LX's come with 285's on the 20" rims.

 

[jwestpro]

He's not suggesting wider. LX's come with 285's on the 20" rims.

yeah i got confused between the post he was answering vs the OP. I stand by preference of taller though I'm guessing the LX wheels are probably 9" wide like the ones on the Range Rover I had several yrs ago. Looked badass w 285 but was ultimately not a wheel/tire size I wanted to deal with.

 

[Dan Higgins]

With respect to the taller even if narrower question, I expect there is a thread on 275/70's vs 285/65s somewhere. I will need to find it when I replace my current 285/65R18 E-rated KO2s. I may want to go narrower/taller. For me, priority one is trail durability (E-rated), towing/load support (E-rated), offroad chops (KO2s). Just need to understand the pros and cons of 275s vs 285s and how much taller I can get with 0 rubbing or adjustments to the suspension. (I already have the OME 2"-ish lift.) Of course all this is academic as I only have just over 30K on my current KO2s and they're looking great.

 

[Andreas P]

yeah i got confused between the post he was answering vs the OP. I stand by preference of taller though I'm guessing the LX wheels are probably 9" wide like the ones on the Range Rover I had several yrs ago. Looked badass w 285 but was ultimately not a wheel/tire size I wanted to deal with.

I have been running the Defenders in 275/60/20 for the past year. I would prefer to stick with the taller sidewall vs going wider and shorter. My other set is the oem 275/50/21 so when I moved to the 20s I wanted the tallest sidewalls without rubbing. Now I want proper A/T tires, hence the KO2s. I don’t really need the E rated tires for my offroading

 

[Andreas P]

yeah i got confused between the post he was answering vs the OP. I stand by preference of taller though I'm guessing the LX wheels are probably 9" wide like the ones on the Range Rover I had several yrs ago. Looked badass w 285 but was ultimately not a wheel/tire size I wanted to deal with.

They are 8.5”

 

[jwestpro]

E

Maybe some of us with a tire ‘problem’ can create a place to talk through our obsession?

I’ll start by saying “yes, I have a tire problem”

Test for day shown above from last summer. Left to right:

BFG KO2 275/65-18(x8”) fits w zero rubbing even w air struts slammed for garages. It is the Max size not requiring more mods than usually done by most lr3 owners to allow the 32”.

BFG KM2 255/80-17 on hard to get Euro SpecV6 lr3 7x17” wheels. Ideal size but just seemed too narrow for an 8000lb vehicle. Probably will regret not trying it...

BFG KM2 285/70-18 on standard factory 18x8 also (same as far left wheel just dif spoke pattern) specs say 33.7 but it easily measured 34.0” It’s interesting how lug patterns change effective clearances regardless diameter and numbers on paper.

I knew I had to make further modifications to the fender liners and body behind them rerouting 3rd row HVAC lines and moving some things in front ARB bumper.

Low photo with mudflap is a test for making my own from Defender flaps. The factory plastic things are stupid and also protrude into tire clearance area.

 

[TeCKis300]

I have been running the Defenders in 275/60/20 for the past year. I would prefer to stick with the taller sidewall vs going wider and shorter. My other set is the oem 275/50/21 so when I moved to the 20s I wanted the tallest sidewalls without rubbing. Now I want proper A/T tires, hence the KO2s. I don’t really need the E rated tires for my offroading

As another option, one could certainly go taller AND wider. 33x12.5 fit great on this rig. Translates to roughly 305/65/18s or 305/55/20s.

 

[jwestpro]

As another option, one could certainly go taller AND wider. 33x12.5 fit great on this rig. Translates to roughly 305/65/18s or 305/55/20s.

LOL - can you say UCA...rub...offset...spacers...run again at full lock, and forget stuffing the tire up if KDSS is fully engaged.

I seriously doubt that size retains full articulation.... would look cool but would also be instantly seen as a true poser highway cruiser.

 

[TeCKis300]

No rub here. You're right that the correct offset needs to be run, either via wheels or spacers, to run that size. Offsets in the 30-45mm range are necessary to run these sizes. Specifically for additional clearance again the upper arm.

 

[IOPTURBO]

I have the at2 in 285/55/20 in e rated on my lx and am not a fan. They aren't a great highway tire like the ms2 and seem to have many of the AT tire cons without the pluses. Just a note for snow use they are not rated for it and I wasn't impressed with them in the mountains in 6in. I'm a michelin person but not for an AT.

 

[SWUtah]

I have the at2 in 285/55/20 in e rated on my lx and am not a fan. They aren't a great highway tire like the ms2 and seem to have many of the AT tire cons without the pluses. Just a note for snow use they are not rated for it and I wasn't impressed with them in the mountains in 6in. I'm a michelin person but not for an AT.

That’s why the BFG AT/KO2’s are the better choice in that size, they are “D” rated LT tires and snow rated.

 

[mooneywa]

I just mentioned this in another thread with a similar question.

I have the KO2s in stock size, they're great, perhaps a little overkill, still probably would get the KO2s again.

Things I don't like: they're noisier than I'd prefer relative to stock, but not annoying by any means. The ride a little rougher.

Things I do like: there wasn't a big mpg hit, I don't have to worry one tiny bit about where I go. I am 95% road use as well and find them to be just fine. Honestly, I'd probably be just fine with the stock tires, but I like the versatility and am willing to take the small penalty of noise for it.

 

[jwestpro]

No rub here. You're right that the correct offset needs to be run, either via wheels or spacers, to run that size. Offsets in the 30-45mm range are necessary to run these sizes. Specifically for additional clearance again the upper arm.

Hey, I know they must look totally badass, nice proportion, flash w fenders, etc. but there’s no way that size plus offset can stuff into the fenders without lots of contact under full articulation off road.

No offense but can you show that you’ve done it...? You have a responsibility on a forum like this to say that you don’t push those limits and that’s why you’ve seen no rubbing.

Unless you have done the several required modifications to allow full travel with that size, then it doesn’t add up...

 

[jwestpro]

For 205/65-18, I actually had one test for on a wheel when I was choosing and it’s way wider than 275/65-18 275/70 and even my 34” 285/70-18.

Its that width that causes all the trouble when articulating the wheel up into the fender as kdss engages. If someone never tries rock crawling or enough odd terrain, they’d probably never know though and the added ground clearance would partially make up for the less wheel travel.

I’d love to see it though anyway!!

 

[TeCKis300]

I hear you. Though this platform wears 33x12.5s very well with the right offset. There's others that run 35x12.5, albiet with likely rub. The LX570 doesn't have KDSS clearance issues and those are mitigated with the right offset too. I'll admit, I am a beef junky as I like them wide.

 

[jwestpro]

The LX570 doesn't have KDSS clearance issues and those are mitigated with the right offset too.

I must have missed that you have the lx and thus the ADC/ride height. You like it? I am a sucker for being able to cruise at speed on lower height then raise for offroad. I also like it adapting to trailering weight.

What does it do if you really try to cross axle flex? You must have tried for kicks sometime. My lr3 has 13" or more range in the rear and looks ridiculous when stretched out or stuffed up.

That paint is sweet.

 

[NMNORSSE]

View attachment 1612797

Are those trailer mirrors attached to the factory mirrors?

 

[TeCKis300]

I must have missed that you have the lx and thus the ADC/ride height. You like it? I am a sucker for being able to cruise at speed on lower height then raise for offroad. I also like it adapting to trailering weight.

What does it do if you really try to cross axle flex? You must have tried for kicks sometime. My lr3 has 13" or more range in the rear and looks ridiculous when stretched out or stuffed up.

That paint is sweet.

Hah, to say I like AHC is an understatement. I'm probably the resident AHC protagonist on the boards. I've had a long history toying with it since my '06 LX470 days. It brings another dimension of competence to the platform. The ability to provide the perfect plush and controlled ride, from a single person, to 6 passengers stuffed full with 7700 lbs of trailer in tow is unparalleled. Load-E AT tires never rode so good.

I don't personally have any really crossed up pics. I know that they don't rub anywhere in the extremes of suspension travel. The hive knowledgebase suggests the issues come about above a 34" tire. For example, people running 35x12.5 have had to limit travel to prevent interference issues.

Are those trailer mirrors attached to the factory mirrors?

Yeah, I was on a long camper trip and was lazy to take them off. Just unhitched and went. Dometic Grand Aero 3's.