safer way is to turn the engine off, grab the fan, have someone turn the engine on. when it gets warmed up, it should pull out of your hand (thanks to powderpig for teaching me that one).
It happened to me, gas venting issue
- Thread starter Brian894X4
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safer way is to turn the engine off, grab the fan, have someone turn the engine on. when it gets warmed up, it should pull out of your hand (thanks to powderpig for teaching me that one).
Is the charcoal canister the same for 93-97.
Jay
Jay
We did the good ol trick of starting it while holding it with a rubber tipped tire bar. (tire machine tire tool) and it pulled it away from the bar after a few seconds of spinning. I don't believe that was the cause. It was 100 degrees that day and I was moving at ~3 mph up a large twisty trail with lots of huge boulders and was turning alot of rpms so that could have been the problem. Plus it was kind of in a valley with little to no breeze.
D
You still should not have overheated. If the needle moves, you're overheating (unless you're running RT's temp mod, of course).
Something is compromised on your cooling system, if not the clutch fan then something else.
As I recall, around year 94.5 they changed to a new part number for the CC. I'm not aware of the differences (if any). I have an extra 97 CC if you need any pictures.
Well if you have any ideas I am open to suggestions. As I said, I will be installing a manual temp gauge soon. So if I can determine a spot that looks decent in the cab it may be sooner than later.
D
- Thread starter
- #47
If your radiator is original, I'd bet money it has sludge in it. The antifreeze can still come out clean looking, but the sludge will be there. In fact, the sludge does not easily flush out at all. Take a look, maybe a with a small, mirror, in the fill cap and try to look towards the corner away from the cap. That's one collection point. If you are having cooling issues, one likelihood is that part of your radiator is plugged. You may not notice it during normal operation, but things start to overheat in extreme conditions like you decribe.
It's hard to say what your real temp was, without a real temp gauge or the gauge mod or the scangauge, if your rig was a '95 and newer.
With the situation you described, a perfecting normal operating system would probably be in the low 200s, like around 205-215, assuming stock fan, no electrical fan, etc. 181 is the normal temp for average ambient temps and normal driving. I'm not sure what temp 3/4 needle is.
Warm enough to cut the AC if he was in a year that had that feature.
Ask me how I know....
x2 on the radiator.
I'd also upgrade the clutch fan to 6k to 10k fluid. Even if you can't stop it, it's 15 year old fluid, and not as efficient as new. The thicker fluid will make it do more work too. You can also look at adjusting it as per LandTank's thread.
Warm enough to cut the AC if he was in a year that had that feature.
Ask me how I know....
x2 on the radiator.
I'd also upgrade the clutch fan to 6k to 10k fluid. Even if you can't stop it, it's 15 year old fluid, and not as efficient as new. The thicker fluid will make it do more work too. You can also look at adjusting it as per LandTank's thread.
That seems complicated, LOL. Can't I just buy a new replacement one or something? Coupled with 2 electric fans that ought to be adequate right? I did have a question, after looking through some temp guage threads I don't see where anyone has just installed a new sender in the factory spot on the engine. Is it not possible to just buy a cheap 20$ manual gauge and thread the sender into the factory location and completely bypass the factory gauge? I couldn't care less whether it works or not, as long as I can monitor the actual coolant temp. I don't want to have to cut and splice hoses and install pipes with threaded bungs or drill and tap the boss on the thermostat housing. There has to be a simpler way, such as the way you would but a gauge on a typical small block Chevrolet.
D
P.S. I may just pull the radiator and take it the shop to get it cleaned anyways.
Wrong! According to Toolsrus, a respected Mudder in Arizona, your best hot weather radiator fan for the 80 series is the stock fan with a clutch being in good condition and heavy weight (I think it was like 18K) fluid in it. Air movement is the trick and with this working well, the benefit of adding electric fans is negligible. Several threads have shown his research & results on this.
You're on the right track. You must verify that the rest of your cooling system is in good working order. Also, spend some time researching the threads on the fan clutch. Being as you have a '94, you might be able to just replace the fluid in your fan clutch. My '94 has a black hub Aisin clutch, which is OE and considered one of the best clutches, if still working.
I added a cheap manual temp gauge Normal driving I range between 180-195 depending on outside temp and cruising speed. I did not wnat to drill the metal housing near the dizzy so I spliced into the upper rubber hose and put the temp probe there and it has worked fine for me so far. Off road at slow speeds and working the engine with the A/C on this summer it climbed up to between 205-215.
It is boiling fuel. It is like opening a shaken can of soda, ideal gas law stuff going on. Hot fuel under pressure, relieve the pressure and you get "boiling" or the rapid vaporization of gas in the tank. Some of us have experience 5 minutes or more of this upon opening the gas cap.
On top of the tank there is something called the "Fuel Shut Off Valve". It is a float valve to keep liquid gas from entering the EVAP system. This is the valve that the one fellow in the other thread cleaned by squirting carb cleaner up the line.
Many of the suggestions are good and have been tried. I replaced my gas cap prior to my summer road trip. I did not get as much driving in as I wanted, but experienced zero venting issues this year. I would not think that the new gas cap solved my problems.
My gut feeling on this is it or could be a combination of several issues:
1. Gas formulations have changed in the last 10-15 years to a more volatile mixture which is handled better in newer cars. (ToolsRUs hypothesis).
2. Sticky "fuel shut off valve" that allows a bit of pressure to build up in the tank, especially when the tank is less than full, a common feature of our gas hungry trucks.
Someday I would like to have a look at one of these. beno is going to send me pics when he replaces his tank.3. Maybe a cooling issue under the hood where fuel returning to tank from the fuel pressure regulator allows much hotter fuel to return to the tank. Maybe even a fuel pressure regulator that allows more fuel to return or even a faulty fuel pump that sends provides too high a pressure? Anything that returns more hot fuel than normal to the tank. This too would be acerbated by high ambient temps and less than a full tank of gas.
4. Faulty EVAP system that draws fumes out of the canister and puts them in the air intake for combustion. To me, this would lead mostly to gas fumes being purged out of the charcoal canister under the hood. Alvin's rig checked out on this so it wasn't his problem.
Once I found out that the gas cap will vent at some ridiculously low PSI (4PSI IIRC) and a talk with Tools, I quit worrying. That is why I put a new gas cap on, too be sure that the cap purge valve was good and I don't have to worry about stress building up in the tank.
Hey mudders! I know this is a super old thread, but wanted to add my story in case it helps someone else.
I was reading through this and a couple other super long threads because I was experiencing the boiling fuel and the 5 minute evap when opening the gas cap after heading up the 87 from Gilbert to Payson a couple times in 115 degree weather.
Actually, let me take a step back. My first trip to Payson when I first noticed sucking/vacuum when I opened the gas cap at about 1/2 tank of 92 purchased in Gilbert. The 3FE was struggling up normal hills, and basically had ZERO power up the higher grade hills. I had to shift to 2nd at 4500 RPMs and I could only hold about 45 MPH. For normal hills I could hold about 65 MPH in 3rd around 3500 RPMs, but the RPMs would slowly reduce. On normal/flat roads I could hold 70 pretty decent and it felt like normal driving for the 3FE. One thing to note is, I would always have to shift manually, the rig wouldn't shift automatically like it's supposed to. After tons of searching on here and YouTubing, I took a deep dive into the charcoal canister and people were saying i was getting vacuum in my gas tank which was sucking fuel back through the lines so it was struggling to get delivered to the motor. I got the GM one that some of you might have seen in threads here and got that swapped out. After changing the CC I ran back up to Payson for another test.
With the new CC the rig started shifting between D and 3rd on its own and I was able to get a tiny bit more power uphill, but not much more. Same fuel (Gilbert 92), about the same temps (115 degree plus Phoenix weather), not a huge change. Once I got to Payson I open the gas cap to fuel up at about 1/2 tank and instead of suction, I get hissing for literally minutes. It sprayed hot fuel vapor at me, which wasn't exactly pleasant and I could hear the boiling sound inside the tank. So more research for me...and that lead me to all of these threads.
After reading and reading and reading, I wasn't satisfied with it just being the bad fuel, so I just started thinking more and reading more. People were talking about the fuel lines and that the lines run back to the tank along the passenger side of the truck. I remembered my wife saying the floor board was super hot on her feet. More so than usual. I noticed the floor board on the driver side was super hot as well. So I researched the hot floor issue and people were saying it was clogged cats. I took it in to this place called Gary's, they always help me diagnose problems with the rig. After digging and digging, they said the only thing they could think of is that my cats were clogged. So that kind of confirmed for me. I took it to Scottsdale Muffler and Chris over there took care of me. Both cats replaced for $400 with 2 year warranties on the biscuit including labor. Not a terrible deal! Fingers crossed this helps!
So, new cats, new CC, next trip to Payson to test the results. I could feel a big difference as soon as I drove out of the shop parking lot. The rig wanted to shift between D and 3rd way way more than before just during normal driving. It's like it was way more sensitive now and I could easily get to 75-80 on a flat city street. Nice! So we grab the same gas in Gilbert and head up...only about 105 degrees out this time, so that's a factor. This time the rig had much better power uphill, it would shift all on it's own and way more often. I could hold 75-80 on flat road (which was nice because I could never hit 80 before unless it was down hill). Up normal hills, it would shift to 3rd on its own and I could hold 70 pretty decent and the RPMs would stay strong around 3500, no more slow reduction. On super steep hills the RPMs would reduce, then I'd shift to 2nd manually and it would gain decent power...by the time the RPMs hit 4500 I could maintain 55, almost 60 pretty well. Still not the type of power one would want from their rig, but it was much better.
We get to Payson and get ready to fill up at the same spot as usual. Open the gas cap and a little pressure but only for like 5 seconds. Sounded pretty normal. No more hot vapor spitting at me! So, moral of this extremely long story is that my fuel was getting to boiling point because my exhaust pipes were so hot due to the clogged cats. May or may not be someone else's situation, but hopefully it gives you something else to check!
Hope this helps!
I was reading through this and a couple other super long threads because I was experiencing the boiling fuel and the 5 minute evap when opening the gas cap after heading up the 87 from Gilbert to Payson a couple times in 115 degree weather.
Actually, let me take a step back. My first trip to Payson when I first noticed sucking/vacuum when I opened the gas cap at about 1/2 tank of 92 purchased in Gilbert. The 3FE was struggling up normal hills, and basically had ZERO power up the higher grade hills. I had to shift to 2nd at 4500 RPMs and I could only hold about 45 MPH. For normal hills I could hold about 65 MPH in 3rd around 3500 RPMs, but the RPMs would slowly reduce. On normal/flat roads I could hold 70 pretty decent and it felt like normal driving for the 3FE. One thing to note is, I would always have to shift manually, the rig wouldn't shift automatically like it's supposed to. After tons of searching on here and YouTubing, I took a deep dive into the charcoal canister and people were saying i was getting vacuum in my gas tank which was sucking fuel back through the lines so it was struggling to get delivered to the motor. I got the GM one that some of you might have seen in threads here and got that swapped out. After changing the CC I ran back up to Payson for another test.
With the new CC the rig started shifting between D and 3rd on its own and I was able to get a tiny bit more power uphill, but not much more. Same fuel (Gilbert 92), about the same temps (115 degree plus Phoenix weather), not a huge change. Once I got to Payson I open the gas cap to fuel up at about 1/2 tank and instead of suction, I get hissing for literally minutes. It sprayed hot fuel vapor at me, which wasn't exactly pleasant and I could hear the boiling sound inside the tank. So more research for me...and that lead me to all of these threads.
After reading and reading and reading, I wasn't satisfied with it just being the bad fuel, so I just started thinking more and reading more. People were talking about the fuel lines and that the lines run back to the tank along the passenger side of the truck. I remembered my wife saying the floor board was super hot on her feet. More so than usual. I noticed the floor board on the driver side was super hot as well. So I researched the hot floor issue and people were saying it was clogged cats. I took it in to this place called Gary's, they always help me diagnose problems with the rig. After digging and digging, they said the only thing they could think of is that my cats were clogged. So that kind of confirmed for me. I took it to Scottsdale Muffler and Chris over there took care of me. Both cats replaced for $400 with 2 year warranties on the biscuit including labor. Not a terrible deal! Fingers crossed this helps!
So, new cats, new CC, next trip to Payson to test the results. I could feel a big difference as soon as I drove out of the shop parking lot. The rig wanted to shift between D and 3rd way way more than before just during normal driving. It's like it was way more sensitive now and I could easily get to 75-80 on a flat city street. Nice! So we grab the same gas in Gilbert and head up...only about 105 degrees out this time, so that's a factor. This time the rig had much better power uphill, it would shift all on it's own and way more often. I could hold 75-80 on flat road (which was nice because I could never hit 80 before unless it was down hill). Up normal hills, it would shift to 3rd on its own and I could hold 70 pretty decent and the RPMs would stay strong around 3500, no more slow reduction. On super steep hills the RPMs would reduce, then I'd shift to 2nd manually and it would gain decent power...by the time the RPMs hit 4500 I could maintain 55, almost 60 pretty well. Still not the type of power one would want from their rig, but it was much better.
We get to Payson and get ready to fill up at the same spot as usual. Open the gas cap and a little pressure but only for like 5 seconds. Sounded pretty normal. No more hot vapor spitting at me! So, moral of this extremely long story is that my fuel was getting to boiling point because my exhaust pipes were so hot due to the clogged cats. May or may not be someone else's situation, but hopefully it gives you something else to check!
Hope this helps!