Is starter fluid bad? (1 Viewer)

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I have an FJ40 and FJ60. Both, fortunately, run well. The only "difficulty" I have run into is that if one or the other of them sits for several days or longer, it takes several turns of the key to get them running. Other than that, they start up and run well (in other words, if I were to start them each day, they would start right up, with the choke closed, of course and run well).

We wanted to take the FJ40 out this weekend and she had been sitting for several weeks. I have a can of starter fluid and figured I'd give her a quick squirt into the carb. She started right up, ran perfectly. The FJ60 is the same way, couple of squirts in the carb when she's been sitting for a while and she starts on the first turn of the key.

So, the question is, is this bad to do? I would never have figured it was but I have read some blogs that starter fluid should rarely, if ever, be used (and if its on the internet, then it is true, amiright!!). It just seems better to put a quick squirt in the carb and have a quick start up than have the starter go round and round until she finally fires up.

Obviously, I want to take as good of care of both of them as possible so I'd like to know if this is a practice that should be avoided.
 
Sounds like your carbs could use some attention.

How long are you needing to crank them..?

Usually there is a routine that can be as individual as the vehicle - X pumps of the gas, choke at X position, etc. that gets the best results.

Starter fluid does indeed help stuff get started, but your trucks should start fine on good old gasoline (if they aren't driven much, gasoline should be used, not E10 or E15 blends).

Starting fluid is a very good solvent and does wash down cylinders, prolonged abuse will lead to excessive ring wear (so will a poorly adjusted carb or excessive idling though.) The newer stuff has cylinder lubricant to help prevent this. There's a difference between a quick squirt and overuse.

I don't mind cranking a little bit on an old truck that's sat around - gives the oil a chance to get moving and start to build pressure before it fires off.
 
How long are you needing to crank them

I would say 3-4 15 second cycles. Without the starter fluid, I'd pump the accelerator 5 or 6 times, choke fully closed, then do the 3-4 cycles each about 15 seconds and then they start up. In my inexperience, I have been concerned that I might be flooding the engine at times, further affecting start-up.

I don't mind cranking a little bit on an old truck that's sat around - gives the oil a chance to get moving and start to build pressure before it fires off.

Now this makes good sense, thank you.
 
Do your carbs have a sight glass or is there a clear, inline filter. Those would be easy to check if they are drained of fuel, meaning your fuel is either draining back to the tank or boiling out in the carb. Other possibilities as well but that’s easy to check if you can see (or not see) fuel after sitting a few days.
 
Do your carbs have a sight glass or is there a clear, inline filter. Those would be easy to check if they are drained of fuel, meaning your fuel is either draining back to the tank or boiling out in the carb. Other possibilities as well but that’s easy to check if you can see (or not see) fuel after sitting a few days.

Yes, both have a sight glass. Clear filter on the FJ40--I put that there to be able to see if there is gas in the line. It does look like after the trucks have been sitting that the bowls empty back into the tank, which, from my reading, is common.

In my naivete, I figured getting the fuel back up with a squirt of starter fluid was a good idea (in other works, with starter fluid she starts right up and by the time the starter fluid has combusted the fuel is back in line and in the bowl). I neglected to consider that all the oil is probably in the pan as well and cranking the engine over to get some oil moving before she fires up is beneficial.
 
I think this is a real common issue in lots of older vehicles with mechanical pumps. The starting fluid does increase the engine rpm, which pumps the fuel (and oil) faster than cranking alone. After a few days or even weeks, there should still be enough oil film on all parts that using starting fluid isn’t hurting anything. I’d just crank it because I’m kind of lazy and cranking is less work than removing the air cleaner cover. I’d also be thinking about replacing the fuel pump each time I was cranking. (Then forgetting about it until the next time.....)
 
My 74 did that from day one even with a fresh carb rebuild and the ported vacuum mod. My solution was, I plumbed in an electric fuel pump ahead of the mechanical fuel pump. I would run the pump 5 to 8 seconds before startup when the rig had sat for a long period. An empty carb bowl would fill right up. You could watch it through the sight glass. Choke & two pumps and it would fire right up with minimal cranking. A solenoid type pump has no restriction when off so it does not affect the mechanical pump’s ability to draw through it. And the electric pump pushes right through the non-moving mechanical pump with no problem. I ran that setup for two decades till I went with the Sniper. A rotary style pump won’t work. Can’t draw through it when it’s off. Must be the solenoid type. I used the Facet 40105. My starter loved it.
 
As long as you are not hosing starting fluid down the carb TO KEEP IF RUNNING, you should be fine. Just don't stab the gas before the oil pressure has had time to build up.

I haven't installed one yet, I've just read about them, but I'm planning on getting a gear reduction starter. From what I've read it really helps with slow starts.
 
Hey Dean, I should add that I tried this setup on the 83-60 but it did not work. The electric pump would not push through the 3-port mechanical pump that is on there. The fuel may have been returning to the tank, but I only know it wasn’t going to the carb. I heard it said here somewhere that earlier 2 port pump will work fine on the later 2Fs that came with the 3 port pumps. I bought a new Kyosan 2 port pump like what is on the 74-40 but I haven't gotten around to swapping them out yet to see how it works. It’s on the list.
 
This is common on Carb'd vehicles using modern RFG (Reformulated Gasoline started in 1990 and has been phased in with gradual reductions of additives). Modern gas is made for Fuel Injection and for lower emissions. In carburetors with a large float bowl, RFG gas can capillary out through Venturi or other openings when it sits. Not much one can do but just crank the engine to fill the float bowl back up.

Starting fluid won't hurt, but unnecessary.
 
Same issue as above, after sitting for a month a lot of pumping and turning the starter - every time I think I have found the magic sequence whatever I was doing stops working. I think it is not as bad as we think, it’s just newer cars have spoiled us a bit. Not ready for a sniper yet, so I will live with mine as is for now.
 
Hey Dean, I should add that I tried this setup on the 83-60 but it did not work. The electric pump would not push through the 3-port mechanical pump that is on there. The fuel may have been returning to the tank, but I only know it wasn’t going to the carb. I heard it said here somewhere that earlier 2 port pump will work fine on the later 2Fs that came with the 3 port pumps. I bought a new Kyosan 2 port pump like what is on the 74-40 but I haven't gotten around to swapping them out yet to see how it works. It’s on the list.
Thanks John. I guess the best thing for me to do is drive them more often so they are not sitting as long—what a shame ;). I always appreciate all the help you give me.

This is common on Carb'd vehicles using modern RFG (Reformulated Gasoline started in 1990 and has been phased in with gradual reductions of additives). Modern gas is made for Fuel Injection and for lower emissions. In carburetors with a large float bowl, RFG gas can capillary out through Venturi or other openings when it sits. Not much one can do but just crank the engine to fill the float bowl back up.

Starting fluid won't hurt, but unnecessary.
Thanks Alf. I have started running ethanol free gas. I might be crazy but it does seem to run better.
 
Thanks Alf. I have started running ethanol free gas. I might be crazy but it does seem to run better.
I made the switch to ethanol free too long ago to remember a change in performance but feel sure you are right. The most noticeable difference I have noticed is with the small engines. Pressure washers, lawnmowers, generators, and all the two-cycle stuff. After ethanol showed up, I had constant problems with carbs. Made the switch to Rec-90 and those problems disappeared. In the swamp, our friends at other camps don’t want to pay a little more for it and they are routinely having carb issues on their swamp buggies, generators, and yard equipment. Since we switched years ago at our camp, we no longer have those problems. I think we are slowly convincing them.

The only fuel I put into a container is Rec-90 with a dose of Sta-Bil.

Rec Fuel 02.jpg
 
I made the switch to ethanol free too long ago to remember a change in performance but feel sure you are right. The most noticeable difference I have noticed is with the small engines. Pressure washers, lawnmowers, generators, and all the two-cycle stuff. After ethanol showed up, I had constant problems with carbs. Made the switch to Rec-90 and those problems disappeared. In the swamp, our friends at other camps don’t want to pay a little more for it and they are routinely having carb issues on their swamp buggies, generators, and yard equipment. Since we switched years ago at our camp, we no longer have those problems. I think we are slowly convincing them.

The only fuel I put into a container is Rec-90 with a dose of Sta-Bil.

Could not agree more. I cannot tell you how many carbs I have pulled apart and cleaned out on our small engines. I always figured it was the ethanol in the gas but had a hard time finding ethanol free gas here in San Antonio. A few years ago, finally found a station that had it and do exactly what you do--take my 5 gallon gas cans and fill 'em up. I used to use Sta-Bil but changed to this--cannot remember exactly why but have loved it. Since the change, like you, I have had to do zero carb clean outs and machines start up much easier.

Given how well the small engines run on the ethanol free gas, I figured I try it in the trucks--happy I did.

As you stated, the cost difference can be off putting but when you factor in the savings in time, energy, money, and frustration associated with rebuilding carbs, it is easily worth it. Also, lets face it, there are times that you might really need a generator (i.e. see terrible winter storm here in Texas a few weeks ago) and if your machine won't start, it doesn't do you much good. Regular use of ethanol free gas increases the chance significantly that it will start.
 
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Dean, that is so funny you mentioned the Star-Tron. Just a few weeks ago we spent 5 days at the camp on a construction project. When we arrived our 3500-kw generator fired right up but would not put out electric. (Bad brushes). So, we borrowed a little Honda 2000 from a camp nearby even knowing that was due to come out for service because it was running so rough. They refuse to use Rec fuel. It did run rough with the stuttering and surging but we were desperate. We used the Rec fuel with Sta-Bil and added a good shot of Star-Tron with each fill up. It slowly but continually began to run a little better and after five days of use it was running smooth and normal.
A lot of our friends call it snake oil and we're just wasting our money. That's OK. ;^)

On occasion I’ll put a shot of Star-Tron in various machines. I would use it regularly in place of the Sta-Bil, but the Star-Tron doesn’t dispense as easily. I wish it came in the same type of squeeze it measuring dispenser bottle like the Sta-Bil does. I should write them.
 
For those of us imprisoned in Kalifornia, what is 'Rec Fuel' ?
 
For those of us imprisoned in Kalifornia, what is 'Rec Fuel' ?
I thought you were joking but according to "THIS" article, it's not available in CA. It showed up here first at marinas. I heard that was due to lawsuits filed by the outboard manufacturers.
I used to drive 32 miles to get it but it's gotten more common now. Luckily I now get it 6 blocks away.

Edit: A while back I read on the Walbro carburetor web site where they stated their carburetors did not fare well at all with ethanol fuels but they were busy working on ones that would.
 
No not available in Kalif. Even worse, Los Angeles is in the AQMD (Air Quality Management District) which is even more strict that the State.

We can't even get Paint Thinner anymore. Really. Most volatile solvents are now verboten, unless you have an industrial permit.

I can get EtoH free if I go to the Van Nuys Airport and get Aviation gas, but that's a hassle. I make a few gallons of EtOH-free gas at a time for small motors and store it with Sta-bil. Either that, or pay for the expensive stuff in a Qt Can.

Hehehe ... You think you're safe in TX ? Not if DC has its way ! Don't let 'em move in !! Put up the Wall now!

As an aside, adding a gallon of EtOH or so to a 1/4 tank is a good way to get through a sticky smog-test situation, "I'm Told" .... ;)
 
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