Hdj81 front end issues (1 Viewer)

[fake name]

I picked up my Hdj81 last month and took it to a LC repair shop. One of the issues was it was diving and leaning into the front right corner. If you were driving straight down the street you had to steer left to keep it straight. It was real bouncy and would sort of wallow especially driving in ruts on the freeway. Also, it REALLY swayed hard to the right when making a left turn.
The shop said it needed new shocks. So, I’m not too mechanically inclined but, I wanted to learn so, I ordered new shocks and replaced them. The same symptoms remained.
Called the shop and they said that I probably needed an alignment.
Thinking that maybe it was the springs, I switched the front springs (right side to left side and vice versa). The problem still existed.
Thinking that maybe I received a bad shock, I switched the shocks around. Still the same issue.
Any ideas on what I should try next?
I’m thinking maybe it’s the bushings?
Or maybe a steering stabilizer?
Or maybe it does need the alignment that they mentioned ?
I bought the car with a 3” lift. It has unknown springs and now has Icon 2.0 aluminum shocks.
Any and all ideas are welcomed, please?

 

[BILT4ME]

I picked up my Hdj81 last month and took it to a LC repair shop. One of the issues was it was diving and leaning into the front right corner. If you were driving straight down the street you had to steer left to keep it straight. It was real bouncy and would sort of wallow especially driving in ruts on the freeway. Also, it REALLY swayed hard to the right when making a left turn.
The shop said it needed new shocks. So, I’m not too mechanically inclined but, I wanted to learn so, I ordered new shocks and replaced them. The same symptoms remained.
Called the shop and they said that I probably needed an alignment.
Thinking that maybe it was the springs, I switched the front springs (right side to left side and vice versa). The problem still existed.
Thinking that maybe I received a bad shock, I switched the shocks around. Still the same issue.
Any ideas on what I should try next?
I’m thinking maybe it’s the bushings?
Or maybe a steering stabilizer?
Or maybe it does need the alignment that they mentioned ?
I bought the car with a 3” lift. It has unknown springs and now has Icon 2.0 aluminum shocks.
Any and all ideas are welcomed, please?

Broken sway bar mounts , perhaps?

 

[cahill]

3 inch lift and unknown castor - alignment would give you details on the castor which might be causing your wallow and twitchy feeling and may point out why you are pulling towards one side as well. I would lift the front end and see if there is any play in the tires (12 and 6, 3 and 9 o'clock), see if there are worn out bushings or broken linkages or play as well.

 

[fake name]

Thanks for the replies guys.
I took it in for an alignment. I don’t know enough to read this but, he said it looked fine except for the caster. Any thoughts?

 

[ZCissner]

I did the @DeltaVS rear panhard bracket and it made a very noticeable difference in the side to side sway. look at your sway bar bushings and mounting points.

 

[Harry Nelson]

Check your front panhard bushings

 

[retrofive]

That caster is way low. Spec should be between +2-4.

 

[Delta VS]

This is ONE of your issues here, your caster is in the negative range, meaning the tires are trying to steer themselves. That does NOT lead to pulling, most of the time. Because yours is a 91/92 model, the spec is reference as being 1*, +-1*, but starting in 93 the Toyota spec is 3*, +-1*, and most people go for as much caster as they can before starting to get driveline vibrations. There are many ways to address caster correction, you will get a lot of differing opinions on that. Some of them are:

-caster correcting bushings (cheap/easy/pretty terrible/don't last very long/don't offer enough correction for a 3" lift)
-caster correcting plates (most require permanently modifying axle to some extent, but are available in a couple different correction amounts)
-caster correcting radius arms ("bolt-in" solution, more cost than the two above, available in various sizes from different manufactures, including us)
-eccentric trunnion bearings (limited amount of correction available, addresses the problem at source of problem)
-"cut and turn" (requires an axle jig to do correctly, going to be considerable labor costs, addresses the problem at source of problem)

The shop is not going to be able to "do an alignment" without using some form of the above, which will not be included in whatever cost they quote you. The only thing they will be able to adjust is the "toe", which will help it track a little bit better (unlikely to be single source of your issue, more of a contributing factor).

Correcting the rear panhard geometry can have a drastic effect on the "fighting to go straight" feeling, especially on any kind of rutted, paved, roads. Read about why here: Delta Vehicle Systems Panhard Lift Bracket, 3" & 5" - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/delta-vehicle-systems-panhard-lift-bracket-3-5.1085308/ (we have a bolt in solution, eimkieth has a diy/weld-in solution).

 

[fake name]

That caster is way low. Spec should be between +2-4.

I’ve picked up a set of 5 degree caster plates AND bar bushings (front and back). I’ll install them this weekend . Then have another alignment done.

 

[k2mantra]

oh wow, I have this exact same issue - @Delta VS I was looking at your Rear Panhard Lift Bracket as well as preording your front radius arms...here's the catch, I have a 4" lift (slinky springs, slee shocks). does your Rear Panhard Lift Bracket handle a 4" lift? I dont see that as an option.

 

[Delta VS]

oh wow, I have this exact same issue - @Delta VS I was looking at your Rear Panhard Lift Bracket as well as preording your front radius arms...here's the catch, I have a 4" lift (slinky springs, slee shocks). does your Rear Panhard Lift Bracket handle a 4" lift? I dont see that as an option.

Yup, 3” panhard bracket will work just fine for 4” lift. If you want to go overboard (AFTER testing drivability with bracket installed and looking at rear axle alignment) you can always consider an adjustable panhard bar. Highly unlikely you’ll need it though.

I would also consider the 3” arms. With 4” of lift you are in the zone of getting correct caster at the expense of adding driveline vibes, unless you have a part time conversion. Many people with 4” lifts are happy with the compromise of 3” arms.

 

[k2mantra]

Yup, 3” panhard bracket will work just fine for 4” lift. If you want to go overboard (AFTER testing drivability with bracket installed and looking at rear axle alignment) you can always consider an adjustable panhard bar. Highly unlikely you’ll need it though.

I would also consider the 3” arms. With 4” of lift you are in the zone of getting correct caster at the expense of adding driveline vibes, unless you have a part time conversion. Many people with 4” lifts are happy with the compromise of 3” arms.

Super helpful! Thank you!

I currently have caster correction plates installed left over from my 3" Icon lift (already getting driveline vibes and a nasty pull to the left). Now with the 75mm Slinkys and 315 tires would you still recommend the 3" bracket and 3" arms? Or should I get the 5" bracket based on my tire size and wait for an order of the 4" arms?

I just saw a previous post where you outline all these questions. I'll read through that as I'm sure you're tired of answering the same thing over and over

 

[k2mantra]

@Delta VS any chance I can talk to someone about timelines and give details about my rig to really dial in whether I need a 3, 4 or 5" radius arms? I emailed a few times last week but it probably got lost in the pile I'm a bit on an ordering time crunch since I know the lead times on these are probably months away.