I need some suggestions. 87 FJ60 mostly smogged. Put a new gasket on the push rod cover. so had to remove the Dizzy and Alternator. Got it all back together. I started it, started right up timed it. it didn't really need any movement. Drove it for about 2-3 miles, came back to the house dropped off the family to get gas. Later found out I had 4 gallons of gas in the tank. when I left to go get gas I was 50 feet from my house and had no power bucking really bad turned around back to the house. Thinking I was lower on gas then I was. maybe running out of gas. Got a gallon of fresh fuel. Still had the issue after the new fuel. Fuel filter had fuel In it. Sight glass had fuel in it. thought maybe the Fuel pump took a dive. Pulled the line cranked the motor fuel coming from pump. Pulled the air filter hat off. turned the throttle linkage, looking down at the carb, Fuel sprays. Now the truck starts then dies and won't idle. pulled both bolts on the front of the carb where the carb jets are housed from what I understand. sprayed carb cleaner in both and then down the air tubes saw carb cleaner coming out of the jet housing hole. Put it all back together. started up felt normal! drove it to the gas station (about a mile) no issue. Filled up, drove it back home. left this morning. Choke, start, idled great. 5 minute warm up. 50 feet from my house, same exact issue. Limped it home seems like there was a pop from the front like a carb back fire. not loud but notice it. then ran smooth for a second. Then back to its old ways bucking then died in the drive way. So cleaned it again and got a new fuel filter. Blew air in the Fuel lines to see if that would help. If the accelerator pump was bad would it not spray fuel when the linkage is turned? The thing I can't figure out is that I drove if for a couple miles with no issue. then all the sudden. Also just after doing the gasket on the other side with the Distributor. But it started and drove fine.
Fuel delivery to Carb!
- Thread starter LandoNick
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Try to edit your initial post with paragraphs. That might help.
When you pulled the bolts out of the front of the carb, did fuel come out? If the float is stuck in the “up” position then the carb thinks it has fuel. Check the fuel level in the sight glass (right above/between those two bolts). See pic below for reference.
- Thread starter
- #5
There was fuel that came out. It’s seems to idle smooth. Then when I hit the road it starts stumbling Then it doesn’t idle good. I’m thinking accelerator pump?
Gretsch
SILVER Star
Since you removed and re-installed the dizzy, I think I would start there. Are you getting proper spark during the stumbling periods? Will pulling the choke allow the engine to idle? What's the status of your ICS system?
Since the issue started you seem to have checked that you have fuel at the filter, through the pump. in the fuel bowl (can see it through the sight glass) and coming out the accelerator pump. Unless some of these confirmations have changed I want to assume your fuel delivery is OK.
I agree with @Gretsch you should be looking at something electrical (ICS, distributor) or vacuum related. Since these issues seemed to start after your side cover gasket replacement, inspect the vacuum lines associated with PCV, HIC (connect under the air cleaner) and the distributor advance. Maybe you have a cracked hose that creates an intermittent leak.
Good luck.
- Thread starter
- #8
I believe I am getting spark it’s starts just fine and I drove with our issue for a couple miles. What’s a good way to check the spark? ICS clicks with key on and barely putting plug together. “Engine” fuse is good.
- Thread starter
- #9
I checked vacuum yesterday it was at 20. It will sometimes idle really well then if I get on the road it’s starts. Having the issue. I will look over the vacuum lines again. Just see if I am missing something.
Gretsch
SILVER Star
I had similar symptoms as you OP when my coil was going out. It was not quite as intermittent but similar. It stopped then came to life again and stopped and that was it. Several backfires trying to start it. Replaced the coil and its been good ever since. I had very limited spark once the coil finally quit. Not sure yet this is your issue but offering this as an idea to rule out.
If you heard backfire-like pops at some point chances are you are getting fuel but not properly lighting it off. Could this be as simple as a bad/loose coil wire to the dizzy? Double check the wire is not broken and is securely fastened.
An easy way to test spark is get an in-line spark tester, something like this:
Amazon product ASIN B01HU2L1NU
and when your truck starts gasping for its last breath, open the hood and check for a light in the tester. This way you can verify things as you have the issue. Consult the FSM for troubleshooting steps for testing spark. You can also test spark by removing a spark plug from the engine and grounding its case against the engine block and see if you see spark while a helper cranks the engine. Don't get shocked though. You've been warned. I would opt for spark tester.
I chased ICS issues and it was a frustrating endeavor. The click test always worked for me so I found it completely useless is diagnosing my ICS problem. Mine was bad grounds on the Emissions Computer. Reflowed the solder joints on the ground pin and its been right as rain ever since. Took forever to figure out. The ICS is a ground switched solenoid. You can create jumpers to bypass the EC and permanently ground the ICS to have it open with the key on to rule it out. Basically ground the ICS on the carb body. Since you have most smog stuff in place I wouldn't run this way forever. Just run it enough to see if your issue goes away. That said, I am not sure that's your issue here.
My general rule is if something starts after something touched, go back to what's last touched and figure out what's messed up. In your case, your distributor and vacuum lines. Just rule those out as your issue and move on next. HTH.
If you heard backfire-like pops at some point chances are you are getting fuel but not properly lighting it off. Could this be as simple as a bad/loose coil wire to the dizzy? Double check the wire is not broken and is securely fastened.
An easy way to test spark is get an in-line spark tester, something like this:
Amazon product ASIN B01HU2L1NU
and when your truck starts gasping for its last breath, open the hood and check for a light in the tester. This way you can verify things as you have the issue. Consult the FSM for troubleshooting steps for testing spark. You can also test spark by removing a spark plug from the engine and grounding its case against the engine block and see if you see spark while a helper cranks the engine. Don't get shocked though. You've been warned. I would opt for spark tester.
I chased ICS issues and it was a frustrating endeavor. The click test always worked for me so I found it completely useless is diagnosing my ICS problem. Mine was bad grounds on the Emissions Computer. Reflowed the solder joints on the ground pin and its been right as rain ever since. Took forever to figure out. The ICS is a ground switched solenoid. You can create jumpers to bypass the EC and permanently ground the ICS to have it open with the key on to rule it out. Basically ground the ICS on the carb body. Since you have most smog stuff in place I wouldn't run this way forever. Just run it enough to see if your issue goes away. That said, I am not sure that's your issue here.
My general rule is if something starts after something touched, go back to what's last touched and figure out what's messed up. In your case, your distributor and vacuum lines. Just rule those out as your issue and move on next. HTH.
- Thread starter
- #11
So I have the ground to the body of the carb. The solenoid clicks when I unplug then plug back in.
I checked all the wires to make sure they were on. The wire to the coil is a new wire.
How do I test the coil. Key on 12 volts?
Gretsch
SILVER Star
As I mentioned you can rely on the plug/unplug click test to test the ICS if you want. It NEVER didn't click for me and yet didn't work while driving. It was a useless test in terms of troubleshooting an intermittent issue with it for me. I know all the threads say that's the test to do. It never showed me a single thing other than the ICS was CAPABLE of working. It just never did.
Another way to do this is to actually when the engine is idling well, unplug the ICS and see if the engine exhibits the same symptoms you are experiencing. If so then maybe that's your issue. The only way to truly rule it out is the ground bypass and see if your issues go away. From the sounds of things, I am not sure that's your problem.
Was the wire on here before the side cover work or only put on after it? Do you still have the old wire? Maybe swap the new one out with the old one and see if things improve.
What's the vacuum read when your motor bucks and tries to die? Since your mostly smogged (I am not sure what that is exactly), lots of vacuum lines to rule out. Have you replaced most of the vacuum lines already on this truck or still original?
Some Ignition System Troubleshooting from FSM:
Do you not have the FSM OP? Good thing to have on hand. Several members have links to it in their sig lines.
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- Thread starter
- #13
The old coil cam apart. this new coil wire has been on for a couple months, so yes before this started. Got a recommendation that I stabbed the Dizzy a tooth off. it idles but when running it bucks and surges. backfire through the carb
Gretsch
SILVER Star
Its likely something there with distributor. Its the one thing touched recently. When you stabbed it in was it pointing in the same place it was when you pulled it out?
Some FSM info regarding Distributor positioning. Maybe helpful?:
GL here. HTH.
- Thread starter
- #15
I redid the whole stabbing the dizzy again. Made sure I was at TDC compression. Stabbed the dizzy. Re-timed it. Drove 2 blocks and it started bucking again. Idles really smooth in the driveway. Starts good. I’m stumped
@LandoNick Did you confirm fuel level in the sight glass while running or when stalled out?
- Thread starter
- #17
I confirmed when idling. I will look when is stalls and see if there is a difference
Gretsch
SILVER Star
So was anything done to this carb recently? I didn't see where any part of the fuel system was touched as part of what you have been doing. Not impossible for something new going on coincidentally, but seems somewhat unlikely to me. This for sure only started after the side cover gasket work/dizzy removal?
I cannot really tell for sure in the included photos on the fuel level. To me it does look like it has fuel but not very much. Maybe @klinetime574 can see it better than me. Actually kinda looks like water in there. But again very hard to see to me. A shot of mine at idle:
Not sure if my photo is any better as the angle isn't great but maybe get some idea where you might want it to be. Hope it helps.
So just for grins, if you were to unplug the ICS while engine is idling well, does it start acting like it does when you have the issue? Meaning is that the behavior you are talking about when you refer to the engine 'bucking'?
I cannot really tell for sure in the included photos on the fuel level. To me it does look like it has fuel but not very much. Maybe @klinetime574 can see it better than me. Actually kinda looks like water in there. But again very hard to see to me. A shot of mine at idle:
Not sure if my photo is any better as the angle isn't great but maybe get some idea where you might want it to be. Hope it helps.
So just for grins, if you were to unplug the ICS while engine is idling well, does it start acting like it does when you have the issue? Meaning is that the behavior you are talking about when you refer to the engine 'bucking'?
- Thread starter
- #20
Ok so stabbed the Dizzy one last time. Started great, idled great, ran it around the block 12-15 times. enough were the neighbors thought I was weird. never had the bucking issue. high RPM, decal up hill, faster corners, down hill, AC on and off. drove normal. so either I was off with the timing 5-6 times straight or a chunk of just flew threw the carb. Regardless I have some trust issues I need to work through. But I still not 100% what the issue was.