Frame/fork question (stumpjumper fsr 29 comp)

[Jetboy]

I was going to buy a Salas horsethief a few months ago and didn't. Kinda kicking myself. I really like my wife's spearfish. Anyway I - kinda by accident - bought a '13 FSR comp frame on ebay. I've been riding a fantom 29 ht that i'm hoping to keep some stuff off of and build up the FSR. It's got a Reba SL 100mm, which I recognize isn't gonna work. So - I'm trying to find a decent deal on a new fork. I'm looking at either a fox 34, a RCT3, or a Tower Pro. The problem with all of them is that they are quite a bit longer axle to crown than the special Fox 32 that comes on the bike from Specialized. The Fox 32 a-c is about 530mm IIRC. The 140mm Fox 34 is more like 555mm, so it's a lot longer. The 140mm RCT3 and Tower Pro are similarly long. It seems like the fox 130 is really more like a long travel version of a 120mm fork. So... would I be better putting a 120mm tower pro with almost the same a-c length as the fox 32 130mm on it? Or going with a 140mm?

And part two: if I go with a 140mm, I can get a fox 34, rct3 revelation, or tower pro for about the same price - close enough buy any of them (unless someone knows of a great deal on one). The 120mm tower pro is $350 new - seems like a good deal. FWIW, my wife has a tower pro 100 on a salsa spearfish. I put 50 miles on it last weekend and would take it any over my reba sl motion control dual air, but my reba is also 5 years old, so I assume all the new forks are better than the old stuff.

FWIW, my riding is in Utah and a mix of everything, but I prefer single track not terribly technical stuff like wasatch crest for you locals, and the slickrock in Moab over lift rides.

Thanks for the advice!
jetboy

 

[Eicca]

I'm not quite sure how to answer your question, but I can tell you what happens to the bike's handling when you change your axle-to-crown height and hopefully that'll help you make the choice.

Taller A-C means your head tube is higher off the ground and the angle is slacker (the wheel is further out in front of you). This increase your control at high speeds and down hills, but makes your climbing sloppier.

Conversely, shorter A-C lowers the head tube and tucks the front wheel a little closer, which makes the bike twitchier at high speeds or down hills but stability when climbing is increased.

You just have to decide how you prefer your bike to handle. There is some speculation that you can have it both ways if you go with a taller A-C but then shorten the stem and/or widen the bars, but that's hit or miss.

Personally, when I swapped to a taller fork, I liked it a lot better since I'm a fan of going fast and down. I just learned to shift my weight further forward when climbing.

Hope this helps!

 

[Jetboy]

Ended up buying the 140mm Revelation - mostly because I found one for $350 new and it was too good of a deal to pass up. I figure if I don't like it, at that price I can re-sell on ebay for what I've got in it and swap to a shorter fork. I'm still waiting for a bunch of parts before I can build the bike so it'll be at least two weeks out before I can ride it.

In a lot of ways a dual air fork would be ideal. I could just ride with a bit more sag and still tune it for a decent ride. Everything seems to be solo air these days, which kinda eliminates that option.

 

[Eicca]

That one has adjustable travel, doesn't it?

 

[Jetboy]

I don't think so. The solo air models usually don't anymore. They way they do the solo air requires a machined port for air to pass and it won't line up correctly if you put a spacer in so you need a whole new air spring assembly to drop the height. At least that's what I have gleaned from my internet searching. I could be wrong though. Obviously some manufacturers use spacers to limit travel on solo air forks. I'll see when the fork arrives.

I've also decided that I probably won't ever buy another Specialized brand product. This is the second one. This frame has been a PITA to set up. Everything is "special". The rear 12mm skewer for example won't work with a regular 12mm skewer - which I have, so now I've got to either order one not being sure if it fits or go buy one at specialized dealer for $50. Seriously $50 for a f'n 12mm rod that's threaded on one end with a cone washer on the other. The headset requires a special non-standard 45/45 campy upper 1.5 lower. The PF30 bottom bracket. Even the rear shock is a proprietary design that you can't swap for anything but "special" ones. I've sourced all the parts to build it except the headset which is supposed to be sent from the seller and I'm waiting for it, but I wouldn't touch another Specialized product.

# wishing I would have bought a Horsethief or a Thumper.

 

[gregnash]

LOL... again why I hate everything specialized.. Don't get me wrong they make great products but the gouge you in the end because everything HAS to be their parts/products for the most part.

I would try what you got and have a feeling you will be liking the little bit of extra travel. If nothing else, I believe the new air spring to convert to dual air is something like $100 from RS which will give you the adjustability (I purchased a 2012 Rev RLT for $225 off pinkbike) to go from 120-140mm. The other thing you have to realize with changing the A-C is that if you go lower it will also play with your bottom bracket (BB) height which can lead to more pedal strikes and what not.

Hoping to have my Thumper done in a couple weeks here as I gather the last few parts.

 

[Eicca]

They picked their name for a reason.

I stick to Trek; all their components can be swapped out on a whim and their paint jobs are dang sexy

 

[Jetboy]

I guess I should have done more research. I had no idea before buying this frame how much specialized used proprietary parts. I called 3 different specialized retail stores today to find a rear skewer. None of them had one. Only one of them could identify the correct one on the phone (I'm pretty sure it's an x-12 style from DT Swiss, but I'm not sure) and they were not sure if or when they could get one or how much it cost. Not one of the three could tell which headset it was from the bike model without asking the techs at Specialized's technical call in service and none of them knew how much it would cost or availability.

 

[Eicca]

What a load of bull. This happens with cars, not bikes.

 

[Jetboy]

Even with cars this shouldn't happen. I can understand an obscure bearing being hard to get from a parts store like autozone, but if I went in with a 2012 model of any car to the dealer, they certainly would be able to get the part and know which one it is by the year and model. The one shop that knew which one it was never called back about availability or price - so I guess I'm on my own with a guess and check. I do have a spare shimano 12mm QR that I can probably make work. I'd just drill out the threads on the drive side and put a cone washer on the brake side to match the beveled hole. Easy enough to do. Not ideal, but if I can't fine the right one it's a 20 minute conversion. And since the drive size threads are in the DR hanger, it's not permanent. Just frustrating.

 

[gregnash]

Completely agree... I can understand like a proprietary headset (inset vs zs vs external cup) or something like that but anything past that is ridiculous... I hate that there are so many crankset bottom bracket standards out there and it can be a bitch to find the crank you like in the right setup.

 

[tag3]

Try to stock spokes for all the different wheels.

 

[Jetboy]

I was chatting with a mechanic at a Trek dealer today and he said Trek is now going to change some bikes to a 148mm rear spacing wheel. Why? I have no idea. His take, and I think he's right, is that one benefit of this is that it's pushing more and more shop employees to sell more small brand bikes. Where as before they might have always suggested the big brand first, they are tending more toward selling customers the other brands and explaining why they might be a better choice. Where are you going to get a 148mm rear replacement wheel?

 

[Eicca]

As far as I know, the 148mm hub only comes on the highest-end 29"-wheel Remedy bikes for now, since it is some kind of "breakthrough" technology that makes a 29" wheel stiffer. Why they couldn't just do it on a 150mm hub is beyond me. But so far it's an isolated case.

 

[Jetboy]

For now. I'd bet within a year or two all Trek 29ers will use it.

What doesn't make a lot of sense to me is that Trek is claiming 3mm of extra width for greater spoke angle. OK, the first issue is that the brake side was never a concern. It's the drive side that has less angle. The obvious solution IMO is either the 142+ from specialized - which is another useless new standard. I do commend Trek for at least making the 148 an open standard that anyone can use.

Anyway why not just go back to 9 speed cassette with 10 speed ring spacing. By removing one cog you could add 3.95mm to the drive side spacing by dropping probably the 17 tooth cog and make the wheel stiffer than Trek's 148 that fits all the regular frames. I went from 9 to 10 speeds with the new bike and I can confidently say that I've never wished I had more gearing options on the small end of my rear cassette with 9 speed. On my 10 speed road bike more often than not I shift 2 at a time anyway. Where I often wish I had more range is at the top. Even keeping a 10 speed cassette if the two larger cogs are on a frame like many/most are these days it's completely doable to allow them to float beyond the inner face of the freewheel and both allow 10 speeds and 4-6mm extra width for mounting spokes. And if you're going to run a 2x? you could pretty easily get away with even an 8 or 7 speed rear cassette. Keep the 10 speed spacing and you can build a much stiffer wheel than the new Trek 148 without creating a new frame spacing standard.

 

[tag3]

Ah, remember how well 7 and 8 speed shifted. How long the chain lasted. Ah, the good ole days.

 

[Eicca]

Yeah it'll definitely be interesting to see how the rest of the industry catches on to the 148 thing. If at all. The claim is to match the stiffness of carbon wheels at a fraction of the cost, so it's all up to Capitalism to decide.

 

[Jetboy]

I think the claim is disingenuous (by Trek). You can easily match the stiffness and likely exceed it of the new 148 wheel by just moving the drive side flange outboard and overhanging it with the 9th and 10th cogs. Just doing that would add 8mm - 2.5x what the 148mm hub offers with only a change in freewheel, cassette, and hub body. If that's the goal, you can do that with the current hub spacing. I think the real goal is a new standard to make parts proprietary or at least make everyone buy a new bike. Kinda like 27.5 - there's really no reason for it other than selling new bikes.

 

[Jetboy]

Finally got the frame built up. Few issues along the way. The front derailleur is confusing me. I don't really understand what Specialized has in mind here. The x7 2x10 I have doesn't fit. It's the correct mount, but the mount location is too close to the bottom bracket and it won't clear the 39 tooth ring. ?? So I put a 3x10 e mount Shimano SLX derailleur on it and it works OK. Not ideal, but it does clear the crank rings and shifts OK.
In short test rides around the 'hood it feels good. The rear feels soft in either pedal platform or open and of course firm when locked out. Might have to try some more adjustment there.
140mm fork seems fine. I really need to get on the trail to see how I like it. Lots of brake dive on asphalt, but that's kind of expected.
Haven't put it on a scale yet. Maybe tonight. Overall I think it's a pretty solid mid travel cross country bike on a mid range budget. Had I been more careful in buying a better frame I think I could have saved about $300 on the frame/parts.

Overall the build is
Specialized FSR 29 Comp frame
Revelation 140 RLT Solo Air fork 15mm qr (This was a new take off fork, not sure what bike as most come with a 20mm qr, but I'm OK with it since it was cheap and it's a cross country bike mostly and my hub is 15mm)
Race Face Turbine Wheels
All SLX drive train 2x10 except x7 pf30 crankset
Race Face bars
FSA headset
Easton Post and vader saddle ($8 - we'll see how it fairs)
XT pedals
WTB Nano tires (with tubes full of stans).

 

[Eicca]

Looks pretty good there!