Can't get lifters out

[gswest]

I've looked all over these links and I couldn't find anything about removing the lifters in the FJ62. I have the head off and it's ready to go to the machine shop for a valve job. So, I thought I'd look at the lifters while the head is off. I took the pushrod cover off and after looking in the service manual, I thought the lifters would just slide out, but noooo, they seem to catch right at the top of the hole. I'm wondering if they're sticking on the edge because of a ridge caused by wear. Anyway, is there a tool to get them out or am I missing something here. The service manual simply shows a guy using his finger to remove the lifter and doesn't list any tool needed. There must be a trick,,,,someone help me before I do something stupid,,, I'm thinking about wedging something in the lifter and pulling.

 

[cruiser_guy]

If the engine is on a stand turn it over, otherwise try a BIG magnet.

 

[gswest]

The engine is in the truck. But I can get my finger in the lifter and move it up to the edge but they all catch at that point. I have a small magnet for small stuff and it won't pull them out. If they're supposed to come out with a little force, I can get something in that could expand outward to grab them, I was afraid that I'd damage the inside, if that matters.

 

[cruiser_guy]

I was thinking of a welding layout magnet. They're good for a couple of pounds worth.

 

[gswest]

I just got back from autozone with their biggest magnet and no help. I'm thinking the bore is tighter at the top where the lifter never touches, so maybe I can hit that area with my dremel using a soft attachment. Somebody must have removed their lifters, I can't be the first to have this situation. There has to be tool that could grab the lifter from the inside enough to get it out; it's hollow on the top.

 

[JURELCATCHER]

Your lifters are more than likely mushroomed on the cam end, causing the binding at the top of the lifter bore...You need to get a small slide hammer that expands on the inside of the lifter lip (check your local parts supply house like autozone, they should have this tool in their inventory)

 

[gswest]

Thanks, I was there earlier but I didn't ask anyone for that tool, I looked around and ended up getting the magnet, gasket scrubber and some scotchbrite drill attachments to clean off the carbon from the cylinder head and piston tops. I'll call around tomorrow for that tool.

 

[Wile E Coyote]

Try this tool from Summit. It hooks under the 'lip' of the lifter and has a mini slide hammer to pop those stubborn lifters out.
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+115+-111792&D=-111792

 

[gswest]

Thanks for the tip, I ordered the tool from Summit and saved $20.00 from Napa's price. My only question is: I thought these were supposed to be solid lifters, mine are hollow on the top and this tool is called a hydraulic lifter tool. Everyone insists that our engines have solid lifters; I have a 1988 FJ62, what lifters are supposed to be in this truck?

 

[Mark W]

Your lifters are solid. And they are basically hollow. In the case of the 3Fe engine, the lifter is basically a small cylinder, open at the top, which the pushrod sit down inside of.

The lifter is not "mushroomed". Do not take any sort of grinder to the bore either.

You should normally be able to slide them out, just as suggested in the manual. A magnet helps a lot. Some thin oil (penetrating oil) or even a bit od kerosene or diesel fuel) will often help as it cuts the surface cling of the motor oil that coats the lifters and lifter bores.


Mark...

 

[NaterGator]

Rare earth magnets are your best bet... see if you can find some small neodymium magnets locally to try. They are about as strong as you are going to get without spending a fortune.

 

[gswest]

Thanks, I'm thinking the tool will get it out. The magnet from autozone didn't work, so I'm counting on the special tool from summit. The other issue is whether to get new lifters or have mine worked on. I'm not going deeper into the engine so the cam will not be removed. Somewhere on here I saw a comment about new lifters on a worn cam doesn't make sense. Any thoughts on that anyone?

 

[Buffalo]

I was always taught to change the lifters when the cam was changed. If for any reason you need to take the lifters out without changing the cam, i was taught to be careful to make sure they went back in, in the same order.

In this respect it makes little sense changing the lifters without the cam as the cam will have been run in against those lifters...

FWIW ~PHIL

 

[Mark W]

Thanks, I'm thinking the tool will get it out. The magnet from autozone didn't work, so I'm counting on the special tool from summit. The other issue is whether to get new lifters or have mine worked on. I'm not going deeper into the engine so the cam will not be removed. Somewhere on here I saw a comment about new lifters on a worn cam doesn't make sense. Any thoughts on that anyone?

What sort of "work" do you want to get done on your lifters? The only thing that would be done to a lifter is to resurface it.

Lifters and cam lobes mate to each other. If your lifters need to be replaced or resurfaced, then so does you camshaft. If you have not removed any of the lifters, then you can not have inspected the face of any of them. Why are you thinking that they are worn out?

You have to keep the lifters mated to the lobe they have worn to match. Lifters and cams must be replaced together. New on new.


Mark...

 

[FJ40Jim]

Thanks, I'm thinking the tool will get it out. The magnet from autozone didn't work, so I'm counting on the special tool from summit.

The hydraulic lifter tool will not remove the solid lifter in a Cruiser engine. The tool is supposed to catch the e-clip groove inside the top of the hydraulic lifter. You know the groove that holds the hydraulic guts in.

Wait, there's no groove anywhere on a Cruiser lifter!


Lifters that won't come up very far are stuck due to the lacquer on the bottom of the lifter.

Lifters that come almost all the way out are just getting cocked in the bore right at the top. Carefully pull straight up on them to remove.

Grab em w/ a small pair of channellocks if necessary.

 

[gswest]

My reason to check the lifters is that I'm trying to eliminate some of the ticking coming from this 215,000 mile engine. It runs great otherwise, and I understand solid lifter engines have a mechanical sound compared to quieter hydraulic lifter engines. But I'm getting the valve job and don't want to put it back together only to find it still sounds like a tired motor. The lower end should be ok since it burns no oil, compression is good, and it never overheats. So, if I resurface the lifters, will this negatively affect the camshaft? Or is it pointless? Maybe if I replace the rocker arms, I can quiet her down?
You can tell I don't want to do a complete rebuild. This started as a simple valve job and I want to take advantage of the access to the lifters.

 

[Mark W]

Again... Lifters and cam are matched. You don't replace one and leave the other. If lifters need replacement, so does cam. New lifters *may* not hurt the old cam. The old cam WILL hurt the new lifters.


Mark...

 

[gswest]

OK, so there is no purpose in removing and cleaning up these lifters unless I replace or resurface the cam? They should slide out without sticking, so shouldn't I address that issue; clean off the varnish or whatever is keeping them from sliding out. My main purpose is to reduce the ticking; maybe the lifters aren't even the culprit.
Here's the thing, if the lifters are what's making the ticking noise and the only remedy is a new cam, then I'd rather do it now as opposed to putting it all together and realizing after that the noise is still there.
There's nothing easy is there? I guess that's why nobody can give you a set price for some of this work; you don't know until you get in there what it's going to take to get it right. I keep hearing guys talking about starting with one repair and they end up with a complete rebuild.

 

[gswest]

F40jim,
The tool did remove the solid lifters. It has an expandable collar that when tightened grabs the inner bore of the lifter enough to hammer it out. The only thing holding them in is the varnish on the lifter and the inner bore. I've got 3 out so far and they appear to be in great shape to this point. I'll try to attach some pictures. The good news is I don't think they need replacing, so the cam issue is moot.

 

[Mountain Goat]

The problem is almost certainly varnish buildup in the lift bores. Berryman B-12 Chemtool disolves the varnish very quickly. You can get it at most auto parts stores.

Then flip the engine or pull the lifters out with a magnet. I have some rediculously powerful little disk magnets if you want. PM me.

Good luck!