Brake Rotor Warping, recently replaced

[jetlagged]

Hello, while I have seen other threads in the past about similar issues, few to none of them have an actual conclusion, though I have seen things like caliper replacement thrown around. Mostly just wondering if others have had the issue of the car rapidly warping rotors etc.

I purchased my lx 570 (2020) with 35k miles, no issues on inspection, originally purchased in Texas, I am the 2nd owner. All fluid replaced shortly after purchase including brake fluid. I live near in the southwest where ambient temperatures on concrete can reach 110-120F in the summer, but there is no moisture. I drive down a mountain about 1-6 times a month, but am not jamming on the brakes.

Currently at 52k miles 10 months later. When I purchased I noticed the steering wheel would vibrate when braking from highway speeds. At that time I had the dealers replace the front rotors, which solved the issue for 8-10k miles. The rear rotors were replaced within 5k miles of purchase as well due to being “at tolerance limits”. Around 10k miles after purchase coming down a mountain, noticed the vibration returned. Tried a bedding procedure that didn’t help.

The rear and front rotors were turned around that time. Now about 3-4k miles after that the vibration has returned braking at highway speeds (at moderate pressure). Again, bedding didn’t help.

This time I am equipped and am planning to do a full brake pad and rotor replacement myself, including checking the lugnut torque, cleaning the hubs checking the hubs for flatness, inspecting the calipers, and flushing new brake fluid.

Just wondering how others have dealt with this and what expected rotor lifespan should be.

 

[GrouchyTech]

I can’t wait to hear someone parrot the “rotors almost never warp” bull****.

They do. OFTEN. Sometimes uneven pad deposits cause a similar feel, but almost every single rotor I measure has A LOT of runout. Highlander front rotors are the world’s worst.

The solution? There isn’t a universal one. Replace rotors, don’t machine them. Driving style and geography is a huge factor.

 

[TomEf]

I can’t wait to hear someone parrot the “rotors almost never warp” bull****.

They do. OFTEN. Sometimes uneven pad deposits cause a similar feel, but almost every single rotor I measure has A LOT of runout. Highlander front rotors are the world’s worst.

The solution? There isn’t a universal one. Replace rotors, don’t machine them. Driving style and geography is a huge factor.

Are you measuring runout at the braking surface?

 

[TeCKis300]

Yes, driving style. Not so much that one is heavy on the brakes or stabs them, but more sitting on the brakes at a light with a hot rotor. In my opinion, that's what leads to rotors warping or uneven deposits.

What can help IMO is to inch up a bit at a light so the rotor is not clamped in a single position.

Changing up the pad material can help too.

To some degree, rotors consumables.

 

[jetlagged]

I can’t wait to hear someone parrot the “rotors almost never warp” bull****.

They do. OFTEN. Sometimes uneven pad deposits cause a similar feel, but almost every single rotor I measure has A LOT of runout. Highlander front rotors are the world’s worst.

The solution? There isn’t a universal one. Replace rotors, don’t machine them. Driving style and geography is a huge factor.

Thanks, yeah I don’t think this is uneven pad deposits, a bedding procedure did nothing.

My use is probably heavier than most street use as I live next to a mountain, and coming down is largely highway speed with some intermittent curves. It is possible that is what did it.

My deeper worry is just making sure there isn’t something wrong with the caliper / hub, but not 100% sure how I plan on doing that other than making sure the slide pins aren’t sticking.

Not sure if I should expect to just keep replacing rotors at this rate indefinitely, or if it happens again in under 10k miles if I should try replacing the calipers, etc. This time I’m not messing around, will try a full oem pad and rotor replacement at once.

 

[jetlagged]

Yes, driving style. Not so much that one is heavy on the brakes or stabs them, but more sitting on the brakes at a light with a hot rotor. In my opinion, that's what leads to rotors warping or uneven deposits.

What can help IMO is to inch up a bit at a light so the rotor is not clamped in a single position.

Changing up the pad material can help too.

To some degree, rotors consumables.

Yeah that is possible, I don’t abuse them but due to coming down a mountain periodically and high ambient temperatures through 1/3 of the year it is definitely a possible the pad is getting clamped on hot rotors etc at stop lights. It is unclear to me if it is better to brake for a long distance more lightly or a shorter distance slightly more aggressively. I generally trend towards the former, but due to the nature of traffic in my city sometimes it is necessary to brake a bit harder.

lol, I’m mildly annoyed I have to think this much about braking… luckily moving out of this geography in the near future.

 

[Sandroad]

Thanks, yeah I don’t think this is uneven pad deposits, a bedding procedure did nothing.

My use is probably heavier than most street use as I live next to a mountain, and coming down is largely highway speed with some intermittent curves. It is possible that is what did it.

My deeper worry is just making sure there isn’t something wrong with the caliper / hub, but not 100% sure how I plan on doing that other than making sure the slide pins aren’t sticking.

Not sure if I should expect to just keep replacing rotors at this rate indefinitely, or if it happens again in under 10k miles if I should try replacing the calipers, etc. This time I’m not messing around, will try a full oem pad and rotor replacement at once.

I’m not sure what you mean by “mountain”, but I’ll guess that’s the cause of your extremely early brake issue. It sounds like an opportunity to use engine braking on those curves. Try using S mode and downshifting to a gear that controls speed without touching the brakes every time you descend. I’ll bet your next brake job will last a long time.

 

[Sandroad]

I can’t wait to hear someone parrot the “rotors almost never warp” bull****.

They do. OFTEN. Sometimes uneven pad deposits cause a similar feel, but almost every single rotor I measure has A LOT of runout. Highlander front rotors are the world’s worst.

The solution? There isn’t a universal one. Replace rotors, don’t machine them. Driving style and geography is a huge factor.

Very interesting! I had no idea 200 rotors often actually warp, with almost every one measuring a lot of runout. Until your post, I was in the camp of uneven pad deposits causing almost all brake vibration issues. From now on, if I comment on a brake post, I’ll just automatically suggest rotor replacement. Thanks.

 

[TeCKis300]

Yeah that is possible, I don’t abuse them but due to coming down a mountain periodically and high ambient temperatures through 1/3 of the year it is definitely a possible the pad is getting clamped on hot rotors etc at stop lights. It is unclear to me if it is better to brake for a long distance more lightly or a shorter distance slightly more aggressively. I generally trend towards the former, but due to the nature of traffic in my city sometimes it is necessary to brake a bit harder.

lol, I’m mildly annoyed I have to think this much about braking… luckily moving out of this geography in the near future.

Not faulting anyone for using their brakes and I'm definitely guilty of running them harder than most. I've likewise smoked the stock pads and had warping. Likewise with heavy towing loads. Organic and low metallic OEM pads don't put up with much heat.

Since I've switched to Hawk LTS, I've had less problems. Or only problems caused by myself as even these, I've run so hot as to destroy them down the their backing plates on one particularly spicey run coming back from a trip through the mountains. Who would have thunk hustling a heavy LX on 37s could be fun. To be fair, the brakes delivered until the last bit of pad material.

 

[GrouchyTech]

Are you measuring runout at the braking surface?

I am, sometimes both on the hub and at the lathe. Sometimes shudder is due to varying thickness, but most times the thickness doesn’t seem to be the cause of the shuddering. I assumed a warp would crack the rotor but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Toyota rotor crack that wasn’t compromised in some other way.

 

[GrouchyTech]

Very interesting! I had no idea 200 rotors often actually warp, with almost every one measuring a lot of runout. Until your post, I was in the camp of uneven pad deposits causing almost all brake vibration issues. From now on, if I comment on a brake post, I’ll just automatically suggest rotor replacement. Thanks.

I don’t see that many 200s with brake vibe problems, and when I do it’s usually the REARS. You’ll feel it most while braking from lower speeds 40 mph or less, not in the steering wheel but the whole vehicle.

Also, I’m not a Toyota god or anything close. I am sure that I’m wrong sometimes, I just go off what I’ve experienced…

 

[jetlagged]

I’m not sure what you mean by “mountain”, but I’ll guess that’s the cause of your extremely early brake issue. It sounds like an opportunity to use engine braking on those curves. Try using S mode and downshifting to a gear that controls speed without touching the brakes every time you descend. I’ll bet your next brake job will last a long time.

Yeah it’s just a descent from 8000 ft to 2000 ft, just a local mountain.

 

[Artie]

Not faulting anyone for using their brakes and I'm definitely guilty of running them harder than most. I've likewise smoked the stock pads and had warping. Likewise with heavy towing loads. Organic and low metallic OEM pads don't put up with much heat.

Since I've switched to Hawk LTS, I've had less problems. Or only problems caused by myself as even these, I've run so hot as to destroy them down the their backing plates on one particularly spicey run coming back from a trip through the mountains. Who would have thunk hustling a heavy LX on 37s could be fun. To be fair, the brakes delivered until the last bit of pad material.

View attachment 4170166

Those look like they sounded amazingly bad.

 

[doru]

You should first find out the cause.
You should start with a clean slate... a proper brake job that includes hub cleaning, hub run out measurement, new rotors, rotors run out measurement, new pads, proper bedding, caliper pistons inspection, new pad hardware, all this for both front and rear.
Driving style can be a factor. I found out that hard intermitent breaking is better than dragging the brakes which tends to deposit material uneven on the rotors.
If after all this you still have this issue, you should look at upgrading.
First is better pads.
Next is slotted rotors. Slotted ritirs are great at keeping pads surface "fresh". The drawback is some noise and shorter pad life.
Last is BBK.
Start with the easy stuff and be sure you don't skip on proper brake job. I bet many dealers just throw new parts on whitout cleaning hubs or measuring runout.

 

[Artie]

Not faulting anyone for using their brakes and I'm definitely guilty of running them harder than most. I've likewise smoked the stock pads and had warping. Likewise with heavy towing loads. Organic and low metallic OEM pads don't put up with much heat.

Since I've switched to Hawk LTS, I've had less problems. Or only problems caused by myself as even these, I've run so hot as to destroy them down the their backing plates on one particularly spicey run coming back from a trip through the mountains. Who would have thunk hustling a heavy LX on 37s could be fun. To be fair, the brakes delivered until the last bit of pad material.

View attachment 4170166

Those look like they sounded amazingly bad.