Brake Failure @ Rowher Flats

[bluto]

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showpost.php?p=876848&postcount=1

Video of extraction - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksSlXLbzfbI Thumbs up. No substitute for experience offroaders who know how to use their recovery equipment.

Wow. Very sobering for me as an offroad rookie. This area is only a 20+ minute drive for me and I frequent it as free time allows me - but I dont do the steep climbs and downhills without another rig.

Well I got some brake PM to do before going on the next ride and remember to use less brakes going down.

 

[SOCALFJ]

Wow that sucks so bad. What was the brake failure all about? What happened to make the brakes fail? That's pretty odd. I would have gone up there in a heart beat and helped if i knew (just read this now). The guy in the red shirt (owner?) and the girl filming with little kid should not have been that close to the winching. If one of those line breaks it's gonna shoot right up and over that road.. and yes i've seen it happen with bigger trucks/winches.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Modern brakes are twin circuit to prevent a TOTAL brake loss. So if he blew a line on one end he sill should have had some brakes. There were other contributing factors to this

I think this was all avoidable. I have driven trucks out of steep places with screwed up brakes from snagging a hose and the key is experience planning and going slow. This driver lacked experience from the comment of him only having the 4wd one month.

I'm willing to bet the guy was not in low range and possibly Had a pre-existing brake issue that he decided to go wheeling with anyway. Even an automatic if it had been in Low and 1st he should have been able to effect the descent with the parking brake and no other brakes.

Hate that the guy lost his truck but maybe a few novice people can learn from this.

1. Go slow on descents. If you are going faster then a walking pace on anything resembling that hill you are going too fast. There is no need for speed. If the jack ass behind you thinks you are going too fast then let them pass. Don't be bullied into going faster then you are comfortable with.

2. Be in low range and a lower gear (even on an auto you should be in 1st or 2nd) to get as much engine braking as possible so as to gain minimal speed and use minimal braking to control the decent.

3. MAKE SURE YOUR BRAKES ARE TOP NOTCH! That means everything. If you are running larger then stock tires you MUST keep the brakes perfect. Your brakes may require upgrades to deal with larger tires. Research it because chances are somebody on this board or Pirate or 4x4 Wire has done a brake write up that may benefit you. Simple things like 4cylinder have less powerful calipers then 6cylinders. You can bolt on a 6 cylinder caliper no problem with no other mods.

4. The Parking brake must work. Check it and make sure you can keep enough wits about you to be able to use it in an emergency. Practice with it. If you have a Stick get use to using it on seep hills to hold you while you take off so you don't roast the clutch. If you have an auto then practice with it on a decent so you know what to expect and see how it will work if you are going slow and in low range. Just remember that if you are in 4wd (and center diff locked on a awd) that even though the brakes are on the rear it will cause braking on all four wheels. If you are not in 4wd then you can lock the rear and cause the truck to spin so know your truck.

5. You lift a Toy with Load sensing rear brakes you damn well need to make an adjustment to that valve to compensate for the lift or better yet take it loose from the axle and bolt it in the full up position to help with the over-sized tires.

6. Excessive brake peddle travel on a truck with rear drums is usual the rear brakes out of adjustment. Either the pads are worn beyond usable lining OR the adjuster is not working properly. FIX IT.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Wow that sucks so bad. What was the brake failure all about? What happened to make the brakes fail? That's pretty odd. I would have gone up there in a heart beat and helped if i knew (just read this now). The guy in the red shirt (owner?) and the girl filming with little kid should not have been that close to the winching. If one of those line breaks it's gonna shoot right up and over that road.. and yes i've seen it happen with bigger trucks/winches.

Good point. Only the people involved in the recovery need to be anywhere near it. Spectators should be a minimum of double the length of the laid out cable away on the UP HILL side of the recovery. I have seen a terrifying video of a cable fail and the spectators including young kids were down hill where a now driver-less truck was headed. Thankfully it turned and rolled back into an embankment and stopped.

Despite what Mythbusters say a cable can whip when it fails. Ask the 13 year old that just lost both her feet at 6 Flags last week. Guy I wheel with use to be a health inspector on a commercial fishing boat (think deadliest catch) that was on board when a guy got cut clean in half when a cable failed.

 

[bluto]

Im just glad this had a happy ending. I met Charles before (the black 4runner in the background - real cool dude. As a matter of fact he gave me one of his old MTRs to use as a correct size spare when I needed it for a trail run.

From reading most of the thread -


On why the brakes failed.
"As for why this happened is simple, he was using his brakes comming down hill, eventually boiling the fluid in the calipers, causing total brake loss."

Bystanders while winching - Im guessing he had a synthetic line? Im not sure if its going to make a difference?

BTW - thanks Grim Reaper for the advice!

 

[SOCALFJ]

"As for why this happened is simple, he was using his brakes comming down hill, eventually boiling the fluid in the calipers, causing total brake loss."

How the heck do you do that? It's not like he was riding the brakes for 50 miles down hill or anything. Sure is a freak accident like they say on that thread.

 

[Grim Reaper]

How the heck do you do that? It's not like he was riding the brakes for 50 miles down hill or anything.

I agree. To boil the brakes while trail riding is nearly impossible. You simply should not be going fast enough where heat is even an issue if your brakes are properly maintained. It leads back to driver error if that is what did happen. The driver was going to fast, wrong gear.

The second part of the equation is lack of maintenance. Brake fluid absorbs moisture from the atmosphere. That moisture lowered the boiling point. Brake fluid should be changed every 2 years or 30K to avoid these sort of problems. Failure to do so will cause corrosion in the system in addition to the lower boiling point.

 

[bluto]

How the heck do you do that? It's not like he was riding the brakes for 50 miles down hill or anything. Sure is a freak accident like they say on that thread.

just to clarify - that reason why it failed quote was from a poster in the orig thread.

 

[SOCALFJ]

Yeah, went and read it after you posted the reason... still weird to me why that would ever happen. I would have yanked my e-brake like others said too.

Glad the guy is alright. That's the important thing.

 

[clownmidget]

How does the ABS work on those newer 4Runners? I know that if is not disabled on a descent like that it can get a lot inexperienced (& experienced!) folks in deep hooey in a hurry.

 

[Slomo]

Very interesting indeed. I was going to say something about that guy standing way too close to the winch line too. Good reminder to all about wiching safety and proper downhill techniques. Thanks for the input Grim Reaper.


Good point as well Mike. The more electronics controll traction and braking in the new vehicles the more inexperienced drivers will rely on them instead of learning vehicle control and the dymamics of thier own vehicle. They can be a huge detrement off road and everyone should be aware of how their vehicle will handle the different environments they plan to encounter when heading out on the trail.