Back at it again (and need diff help)

[bulldog8934]

so based on this it seems like Harrops are the way to go. So I have a brand new toyota on the front, the factory switch, and all I need to do is buy the rear harrops diff? Has anyone run a "hybrid setup" like this?

 

[Desert Dino]

I don't know how this tread become a Locker fight

@bulldog8934 problems are getting a hard decision done and I lack the info to comment

How much you are invested emotionally and financially in your rig?
What is your intended use of the rig? (Day use, trail, off road?)
Is the rear axle the PO installed Full float or C clip semi flout?
What kind of braking system you have on the rear axle drum or diske

A pic of interior motor and the bottom would help

 

[Tools R Us]

...
Seriously, they are not for everyone and all due respect to OEM Toyota, but if you look at the new Tacoma elockers from Mr. Toyota, they have the same design as our Harrop/Eaton units. More simple and fewer things to go wrong.

The Jeep Rubicon also has Eaton type lockers.

 

[Desert Dino]

@bulldog8934 I was in your shoes and but I didn't have the option of choosing since in Israel, there only about 10 FZ80 and we cannot import more

 

[bulldog8934]

@Desert Dino I have way too much financially invested in the rig so this is about the time I make a decision. I would say 2k is my breaking point. Anything more than that to bring her back to stock seems stupid to me.

The intended use of the rig is a go-mostly-anywhere vehicle that can tow, get around in the snow, and go camping. I'm not trying to hit boulders, but I would like to get over what is ever in my way if I need to.

Great question, I can get that info tomorrow, along with some pics possibly. Rear brakes are disk if memory serves.

I am not sure what sort of motor pic you want but it is a standard FZJ80 1995

 

[Tools R Us]

... I would be very interested to hear about when this 'slow' system caused someone a problem. Not hypotheticals, an actual real-life problem caused by the locker not engaging 'instantly'. ...

On this forum it makes a huge difference, doesn't matter on the trail.

The most "instant" locker would be an auto locker, always locked. All select-able lockers lock with splines or pins, so take some differential movement, how much depends on the number of splines/pins. The reason lockers are beneficial is eliminating differential action, a few degrees is meaningless in the real world.

Some of the magnet type lockers, including some Jeeps are the pin type, guess what, they have 5 pins that go into 5 holes, so can take up to 20 percent of a tire rotation to lock. Sound familiar? The magnet type lockers (Eaton) when activated the magnet puts drag on a cam plate, as the diff turns, the pins ride up the cams, pushing them forward, when the pins or splines are lined up, will lock. So depending, can take more rotation than the factory 80 type rear locker.

When activated, the 80 elockers stay locked. On the Eaton, as long as the diff is turning in the original direction, it will stay locked. Roll slightly in the other direction, the pins come off the cam, unlocking, roll a little more, locks in the other direction. Manufactures claim that this has been tuned out, really doesn't matter from the driver seat. When spotting the magnet type locker rigs in technical sections, when they roll back, watch carefully and will see the herky/jerky locking thing on the wheel(s) that are light or in the air.

In wheeling/chatting with the Jeep guys, how many have ever mentioned or complained about locking time, etc, I have never heard it? Only here, because we have the stupid flashing light, if it didn't flash wouldn't be a subject, in the real world it's insignificant.

When the Eaton was released was claimed to be gods gift in lockers, some sales types still claim it. We hang at a few 4x4 shops, now that they have trail time on them, some are not so complementary. The problems seen: When activated, the strong magnet tends to pull metal shavings into the clutch binding it. Pin/cam/hole wear causing locking issues. The wires are small, epoxy potted into the magnet coil, so when snagged, pulled out, requires coli replacement. Installers are now putting a strain relief inside the housing and a non latching connector outside, so the wiring can be repaired.

Have never seen inside a Horrap/Eaton, they maybe perfect, bomb proof, hopefully. In reality there are a relativity small number in comparison to other Eaton types and likely smaller percentage that are used hard, so time will tell.

In the end, all of the '80 lockers that I have worked on, wheeled with work well. When used hard, all can have problems. with enough effort, haven't really seen anything that cant be broken off-road. IMHO, run what you prefer and be happy, my personal preference is factory lockers, they work well and have proven to be durable.

 

[-Spike-]

UPDATE: I found a used rear locking axle in its entirety but the shipping and excessive install costs (swapping the good for the bad parts) are almost 4k not including headache/down time. So we can use this as a baseline.

I did one search on car-part.com and came up with at least 3 locked rear axles for $250-$650 within 150 miles of Chicago. That was just the first result of a Google search for 'junk yard parts search'. You should also be able to work something out with a yard for the missing harness. I had 2 locked axles (including all the related stuff like locker ECU, switch, and some of the wiring), all of the suspension arms, a power steering box, and most of a front clip shipped to Az from Tx for around $500, so you should be able to get something done relatively cheap, if you can't go get it yourself.

Not having a rear locker might be the reason your front locker never worked- the locker ECU is waiting for the rear to lock before it will actuate the front.

 

[bulldog8934]

Thanks for the heads up on the junkyard search. This may be able to lower the cost a bit. One of my concerns is throwing in an axle assembly from a wrecked/high mileage/old vehicle. Would it be easier to throw in an aftermarket diff in the rear and call it a day?

 

[-Spike-]

Thanks for the heads up on the junkyard search. This may be able to lower the cost a bit. One of my concerns is throwing in an axle assembly from a wrecked/high mileage/old vehicle. Would it be easier to throw in an aftermarket diff in the rear and call it a day?

AFAIK there's no such thing as an 'aftermarket diff'. You were looking at getting an aftermarket locker that would go in your old diff. You'd be spending a lot of money to rebuild your diff; gear/locker installs are not cheap. If you were planning to regear both diffs it might make more sense, but still you're going to end up with an aftermarket locker and probably spend more money on the locker alone than an entire axle. I'd buy an old axle and do the maintenance on it. I put an axle with 300K on it in my truck, everything in it looked beautiful, even after I put 30k more hard miles on it and then regeared. I just put a seal kit in it before I installed it, the bearings looked perfect.

You don't even have to swap the entire axle, if you don't want to. IIRC the housings of the locked and non-locked rear axles are identical, you would just swap the diff and the long axle shaft, and add the harness. Do your research on that, it's been a long time since I knew what I was talking about, and I may be misremembering some stuff.

Keep in mind there is a market for unlocked axles. The buggy crowd love to swap in 80 series axles, and they don't mind tossing in an ARB (or just welding them) when they regear them. If you end up with a complete axle to sell, you may find yourself not much lighter in the wallet when everything is done.

All I can say is do the math before you get into it. If you have lots of money, or know how to set up gears and can do everything yourself, and you would prefer an aftermarket locker, and you're OK with whatever extra mods you'll have to do to the dash or factory locker switch, then you will need to make a decision. If you want plug-n-play and are happy with the factory setup, it's a no-brainer. IMHO.