B to 2B upgrade (1 Viewer)

[Economist LC76]

Hi, I restore BJ43 03/1980 close to OEM standards and try to discover opportunities to overhaul B diesel with slight upgrade in hp but without visible changes (so no 3B, 13BT, HT, HZ etc).
So the only theoretical invisible solution is upgrade to 2B diesel.
I compared late B diesel (March 1980) with 2B (early and late) and 3B early version. I attached files with comparison but as it was already mentioned early 2B diesel (1979) is very close to late B (before 08/1980).

Result of comparison (B vs 2B):
Head - no difference;
Camshaft - no difference
Block - Cylinder Liner (sleeves 11401-59046 vs 11401-59056) external dimensions for sleeves are identical (ext diam 102.00; height 190.00, ext diam of upper part shoulder 107.60, shoulder height 3.50)
Diesel pump - no difference (only minor washer 22119-77020 vs 90201-12109)
Crankshaft - Pistons (13101-56021 vs 13101-57011) and Piston ring set (13011-56013 vs 13011-57010)
Automatic timer - changes are visible

Both engine have the same valve clearance (hot) Int 0.20mm, Exh 0.36mm and Injection timing 14 BTDC

But different parameters for pneumatic governor & injected volumes for Injected pump.

Am I correct that B to 2B upgrade is possible by 2 steps:
Replacing Liners (sleeves), Pistons, piston rings, Automatic timer
Adjustment of Injection pump parameters?

Thanks for your feedback

 

[ozcrusier]

With all honesty you can replace those items but the injection pump settings is all that may be needed between both engines. If you want grunt get the engine blue printed and balanced or add some extra atmosphere.

 

[Economist LC76]

Maybe I do not get answer properly.

My idea was to increase power from 85 HP (B diesel, 2977 cm) to 93 hp (2B diesel, 3168 cm).
It seems that I only need to increase engine volume (sleeves, pistons & rings) and adjust current B diesel pump to the increased engine volume (automatic timer + pump).

So I wanted to clarify am I correct that there are no more differences in mechanics and the old (B) pump can be adjusted to 2B parameters.

 

[lostmarbles]

Result of comparison (B vs 2B):
Head - no difference;
Camshaft - no difference
Block - Cylinder Liner (sleeves 11401-59046 vs 11401-59056) external dimensions for sleeves are identical (ext diam 102.00; height 190.00, ext diam of upper part shoulder 107.60, shoulder height 3.50)
Diesel pump - no difference (only minor washer 22119-77020 vs 90201-12109)
Crankshaft - Pistons (13101-56021 vs 13101-57011) and Piston ring set (13011-56013 vs 13011-57010)
Automatic timer - changes are visible

Both engine have the same valve clearance (hot) Int 0.20mm, Exh 0.36mm and Injection timing 14 BTDC

But different parameters for pneumatic governor & injected volumes for Injected pump.

Am I correct that B to 2B upgrade is possible by 2 steps:
Replacing Liners (sleeves), Pistons, piston rings, Automatic timer
Adjustment of Injection pump parameters?

Thanks for your feedback
..

B-engine bore and stroke = 95.0 x 105.0 Power 80PS@3600 Torque 19.5kg-m@2200
2B engine bore and stroke = 98.0 x 105.0 Power 93PS@3600 Torque 22.0kg-m@2200

Unfortunately I can't see it being as simple as what you're thinking to get a B-engine to perform the same as a 2B.

For instance I'd bet the spec/adjustments in the respective IP's will be different (for fuel delivery) and setting that is a specialist job.. (even if the internal parts were to be the same - and I'm not sure they are).

My gut tells me that you could put in a lot of $$$ but end up with figures little better than what you started with.

 

[Economist LC76]

Thanks. I will anyhow overhaul B engine and it looks like new sleeves&piston&piston rings for B or for 2B cost the same, so I will not spend extra money. Used 2B automatic timer should not be an issue too. All 2B plans for Inj Pump are visible in manual, if repair shop overhaul IP then they always need to adjust all parameters - I assume B or 2B - price prospective should be the same.
Invest the same amout of money but get +10% hp - looks attractive

 

[lostmarbles]

Thanks. I will anyhow overhaul B engine and it looks like new sleeves&piston&piston rings for B or for 2B cost the same, so I will not spend extra money. Used 2B automatic timer should not be an issue too. All 2B plans for Inj Pump are visible in manual, if repair shop overhaul IP then they always need to adjust all parameters - I assume B or 2B - price prospective should be the same.
Invest the same amount of money but get +10% hp - looks attractive

There's not a great deal of difference in the feel of driving a non-turboed BJ40 and a non-turboed BJ42 and the BJ42 has the 3B which has better figures even than the 2B.

I concentrate on keeping the weight of my BJ40 down (by avoiding bull-bars, roofracks, extra driving lights, air-conditioning etc etc) and I think this even gives it an acceleration/speed advantage.

But if the cost is the same in doing this engine work, then why not add some 2B improvements as you say..

 

[Henry Schofield]

Weight reduction is certainly the easiest way to improve performance. Searching to replace my cracked block B and honestly I want to stay with a B engine if all possible.

 

[Economist LC76]

Just to sum up the findings regarding B/2B/3B upgrade

Main parameters are on the picture (hp European DIN).

From B to 2B an upgrade is possible without a block boring. Just sleeves, pistons and piston rings from 2B. Plus you stay with a B cylinder gasket.
From B/2B to 3B an upgrade requires boring and 3B gasket.

Here we talk only about the volume of the engine, but not about other modern features of 3B.

 

[FramkenCruiser]

I live in the Philippines and have a 75' FJ which had a 2B installed in the 90's. I bought it four years ago and had a restoration done to it. Everything but the engine. which my mechanic says had been recently rebuilt and runs great but is totally gutless. I had thought of buying a 1HZ-TE or something like that but the cost for the engine alone is 2500-3000 USD and then I might have to rebuild it and pay for the install so I thought to do the following to my 2B:

Mill the head .20
Port the head and exhaust manifold
use 2.5-3.0 straight through performance pipes
Cold air intake

I guess my question is does anyone think this will give me the additional HP I want?
Last resort is to install a turbo.
I am not looking to go fast as Cruisers don't do fast but want to get up to speed (80 Kph) and stop all the downshifting on even mild grades.

Any ideas or opinions would be appreciated.

 

[Economist LC76]

I live in the Philippines and have a 75' FJ which had a 2B installed in the 90's.

I guess my question is does anyone think this will give me the additional HP I want?
Last resort is to install a turbo.
I am not looking to go fast as Cruisers don't do fast but want to get up to speed (80 Kph) and stop all the downshifting on even mild grades.

Any ideas or opinions would be appreciated.

Hi, I would see only two options 2B turbo or another engine (2F petrol or powered diesel 13bt (15bt, even 1HZ).

2B turbo for me will work only if you have the late version of the engine (after 08.1980) with oil piston coolings (jets). In this case the upgrade with turbo is great - especially if you do it similar to the factory 13bt logic and components. Without turbo 2B will be always slow.
Upgrade with other engine - many things to consider - initial price, upgrade price. If you find the 4cylinder (B diesel root) family 13bt, 14, 15bfte - it will provide additional power and fit easily.
Regards

 

[FramkenCruiser]

Did not know about the oil piston cooling (jets). Is there any way I can tell if I have a later engine.
Many thanks

 

[Economist LC76]

Did not know about the oil piston cooling (jets). Is there any way I can tell if I have a later engine.
Many thanks

oil nozzle / squirters

 

[Economist LC76]

Short update of the tread.
Finally I‘ve upgraded my B diesel to 2B volume.
Originally I planned to use 2B sleeves. When we removed the sleeves the block around sleeves had some wear. In case if we press the 2B sleeve it would take the ellipse form of the cast iron block. It’s not very useful for a long life of the pistons.
We decided with the overhauling company to press the “thick” B sleeves and bore it inside of the engine.
In order to explain - there are two types of the sleeves with the same external diameter B and 2B.

B sleeve has a thick wall (3,5 mm), 2B has a thin wall (2mm). When you press B “thick” sleeve it takes the ellipse form, then you bore it to the perfect round of 98mm.

So we did it.
Thick B sleeve

Pressing

Boring to 98 mm

 

[Economist LC76]

Honing

New 2B pistons & rings

Assembling

Ready

There is no problem with automatic timer and diesel pump. Plug & play.
As a result. This upgrade brings extra 7hp. Not much to feel when you drive. I assume it worths if you plan overhauling or would like to refresh the engine. I would not recommend to do it if your engine is in a good shape.

 

[Economist LC76]

My first start