2RZ / 3RZ versus V6 (VZ engines)

[Hiace4wd]

(is this the right forum?)



Ok the 3RZ is popular I've noticed. But the V6-es also have nice power output, and they probably run smoother with on-road driving, but may have less torque down below.
A lot of times people are swapping from a 3VZ-E, but I want to focus on 3VZ-FE and 5VZ-FE.
There is also the 2RZ-FE (I don't want to focus on the 2RZ carburated version, don't want it)
So does the comparison look like this?


3RZ-FE --> 150hp, nice torque at low rpm
2RZ-FE --> 142hp, only 8hp and 300cc difference, but also misses balance shafts so maybe more vibrations?
3VZ-FE (or 5VZ-FE) --> 190hp and smoother run because it is a V6? Less torque in low rpm?

A 2RZ-FE may actually be the easiest route for me, because I know it will fit. The 2RZ carburated fits in my van, so I know the 2RZ-FE will very likely also fit. And I can keep my gearbox which is now attached to my diesel (it's the G52 gearbox)
The 3RZ-FE will probably also fit, but it is unsure. It is probably a bit taller.
Both RZ engines with EFI are a bit rare in Europe however.

The 3VZ-FE is actually more common, although it is also getting rarer. But the idea of a smoother V6 with 190hp is a nice idea. Because offroad driving with our camper van usually also means a long holiday drive, so it is important if I can do that with less driving noise and vibrations. The diesel I have now does the job fine, it is a good engine, but it is also quite noisy. And when the highway goes uphill, you want to some more oomph.

Drawback of the 3VZ-FE is that I would need to change gearbox and so on (but the Hiace van was also shipped to other countries with 1KZ engine which also uses R150 or maybe R151, that will fit 3VZ)
And engine mounts would need to be custom made.


So if highway driving is also important for me, should I take the V6 over the RZ engines?
And if I should look at RZ engines, is the difference between 2RZ and 3RZ a big deal? I don't think that it is.

 

[Mudder]

Ummm the 3VZ-FE was only around 160 in the US. The 5VZ-FE is closer to the 190. The 3V has a bad reputation over in the US for the head gaskets going. The 3rz will bolt in place of the 2rz though.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

There's the 3VZ-E and the 3VZ-FE, these are different motors (both 3.0 liter).

I (mistakenly) rebuilt a 3VZ-E in a 1991 4Runner a few years back and did a LOT of research on these motors.

They use the same engine casting, but differ in a couple ways, more significantly in how the heads and valve train are put together.

The 3VZ-E is the one we got in the trucks and that one is has 2 valves per cylinder, single overhead cam. This is the motor that had the head gasket issues. A good machine shop, and quality head gaskets can overcome these, though.

The 3VZ-FE came in passenger cars (Camry and Lexus ES-300, and only for 2 years) and had 4 valves per cylinder, dual overhead cams, forged crank.

I looked into putting the 3VZ-FE into my 4Runner back in the day, but because the Camry and ES300 were FWD transverse axle cars, the way the intake works out, it would have put the airbox in the glove compartment in the truck. Basically, that was a no-go. I did use a 3VZ-FE crank in my 3VZ-E block. With the correct bearings it dropped right in, but it needed some machining to bolt the flywheel up. I did porting and polishing on my 3VZ-E heads, put in larger valves, had custom cams. And for all that work, I had the same amount of power as a stock 5VZ-FE and wound up spending MORE than doing a swap for the 5VZ-FE. I don't know how common the 5VZ-FE's are in Europe though. They are extremely common here in the US (I was able to find a 5VZ-FE with 35,000 miles on it for $650, whereas a 3VZ with 120,000 miles was $1800, and this was from the same junkyard)

If you can get a 3RZ and you can bolt it in, that's the route that I would go. The 2RZ is 2.4 liter vs and the 3RZ is 2.7 liters. There is also a factory supercharger from TRD available for the 3RZ.

 

[Hiace4wd]

Yes well those are the differences between the continents. The Camry's are not that abundant but they are getting old, so you can buy a complete vehicle with that engine for less than a 1000 Euro. And then it is the 190hp 3VZ-FE, so that is quite nice. But I'm expecting it to be quite different from a 4 cilinder RZ engine which I think has more torque down below.
So I wonder if I would be disappointed by the really low end torque while driving off road in low-gearing, because my only reference is diesels with a mechanical fuel pump and no turbo (3B and 2L), they just keep going.
However, I like they idea of a smooth v6 with lots of power.
The 5VZ-FE is not so common. It came in the Landcruiser 90, but like most of the 4x4 trucks as well as the vans, most of them are diesel. And when the engine is used in a Landcruiser, the price is probably quite a bit higher, if you can even find it.
But there doesn't seem to be much use since it looks to be as powerful as the 3VZ-FE
On that note, how much difference is there anyway between the 3VZ-E and 3VZ-FE? I mean not technically, but to drive it? Say someone has 3VZ-E left, they will probably be very cheap. Is it really worth to look at a 3VZ-FE if it costs a lot more?

About the air intake, that's actually great! Because the VZ engines are the only engines with the air intake on the right/correct side haha. On my van, that's where the air intake is with the (Toyota made) snorkel.

The RZ engines are not so common. Basically in petrol Hiace vans, which are rare since they are mostly diesel.
But they are interesting because they will just mate to my drivetrain, making life easy. And I can use existing engine mounts.

But the bottomline is, is a V6 really that much smoother than a 4 cilinder RZ?

It may probably take a huge time before I even make such a swap. But if I want the V6 to be the goal, I better be on the lookout for an R150 gearbox passing by.

 

[Hiace4wd]

Another thing is engine dimensions though. In the Hiace van you're sitting on top of the engine bay, with the seats bolted onto what is in fact the bonnet

I know the 2RZ carburated fits so the 2RZ-FE will probably fit just fine. 3RZ maybe.
But the VZ engines are V6, so at least the length will not be an issue, and I guess the height probably also not?
However the width, I'm not sure because of the shape of the engine bay.

On the other hand, if some people got a 1UZ V8 in there, then a V6 will fit right?

About the RZ superchargers, if seen it and it is very interesting. However, I'm not sure if it will fit in the Hiace, probably not.
And yeah it would become much more expensive, so not relevant for now.

 

[Hiace4wd]

Hmm, I did some more research and I guess the 2RZ-E (so not FE) is more available then I thought (although still not easy)
I thought these applications in Hilux and Hiace were all the 2RZ carburated version, which I don't want.
But apparently, the 2RZ-E (EFI) was shipped in pretty much all of them instead of the carburated one.

Ok, I would prefer the 2RZ-FE or even 3RZ-FE (let alone the V6), but if I find a Hiace van (a wrecker) with the 2RZ-E engine in it, it will be the easiest swap of all options.
Downside is the 2RZ-E only has 8v's and 120hp. The 2RZ-FE has 143hp which is only a small difference with the 3RZ.

But hey, it might be an option if it is going to be the cheapest option. Still low rpm torque for offroad driving, more power on the highways and less noise (I mena low freq noise and virbrations like the diesel)