more on my tired 8274 (PICS FINALLY) (1 Viewer)

more on my tired 8274 (PICS UPDATED 3/22/06)
2020 EDIT: I've moved all of these pictures to my Google Drive, feel free to download them as needed.

i've decided to put this in tech instead of outfitting.
some of you probably know that i've been having trouble getting my winch to work, and i appreciate the patience. i've read the tech article on pirate4x4, but he doesn't really talk about the motor.

PROBLEM:
i can't even unwind the cable 80ft without the winch slowing to a stop. winching myself out of a hole is out of the question. gear assembly on the side is squealing something fierce. winch also won't freespool.

HYPOTHESES:
#1 either the winch motor is dead/dying.
#2 the battery is junk (which i don't think so because the battery was replace
recently and it's still not working).
#3 alternator might not be charging the battery (don't think this is it either. it's a new alternator, and the connections appear to be sound).

TROUBLE-SHOOTING:
sucked the cable in (no load) with a voltmeter on the battery and watched voltage drop from 12v to 11v while winding. the leads me to think that the battery isn't the problem. the motor is quite slow while winding (80ft took about 4 minutes while this winch is rated in the 70's f/mn). over the course of this 80ft no load winding, the winch didn't completly die, but it did slow down over the course of the 80ft.

PICS!!!!!!
click on the link above the pic if you want the super mega large version.

bottom half of the casing. gears look fine, almost no oil in the bottom. the pirate4x4 writeup says 6oz nondetergent 30wt oil. will this stop the loud squealing coming from the left side of the winch? will it help with the free-spooling?


the motor looks dirty/rusty, but as far as i can tell it's ok. i'm hoping someone
who knows motors can tell me more.
pull the freespool knob and it spins easily. this tells me it's somewhere in the lower case that i'm having free-spool problems.


just another view of the top half of the case.


the armature doesn't look bad to me... but what do i know. the brushed in the bottom aren't totally square, but they aren't as rounded as the ones in the pirate4x4 writeup.


any thoughts, comments, ideas, observations would be super great.
i'd like to get this solved in the next coupld of weeks as the cruiser is about
to embark on a 6day desert trip.

Isn't the brake ring installed backwards?

Have you disassembled the brake mechanism on the side of the winch?

Pin_Head said:

Isn't the brake ring installed backwards?

Click to expand...

It is installed properly...

rusmannx said:

i've decided to put this in tech instead of outfitting.

Click to expand...

and I will not move it for now, as this is something that I want to see resolved, and then will be added to the FAQ.

Show me your wiring:




Power and ground cables and connections.....both at the winch and at the battery/batteries.

With all the corrosion on everything there, and you stating that there is a squealing sound coming from the side of the winch, I would rebuild the brake mechanism. If this is sticking, which is not uncommon, it will be difficult or almost impossible for you to free spool cable out, or if it is rusted to s***/full of crap, it will bind up, and prevent you from being able to power out the cable or free spool it.


There is a lock plate that you can see in your very first picture. Lift that up, and then pull the brake out of the gears and housing. Now is where the fun begins. There is a snap ring that most likely is rusted into position that needs to be removed, and then the shaft needs to be pressed out of the brake assembly. I have stalled out a 40-ton press trying to do this on more than one brake assembly. The Warn rebuild kit has detailed instructions on this procedure, and I am sure if you hunt around, it can be found online someplace.

i have not pulled the brake assembly apart yet because i'm afraid of it.
i have a very busy next couple of days ahead of me, but i will try to pull it apart on friday. anyone know the price on the brake assembly rebuild kit?

EDIT: i will get some pics of the wiring too when it is light out.

EDIT AGAIN: poser, that new winch is yours? it's sweet looking.
does the newer one have the same motor as mine, or is it better?

rusmannx said:

i have not pulled the brake assembly apart yet because i'm afraid of it.
i have a very busy next couple of days ahead of me, but i will try to pull it apart on friday. anyone know the price on the brake assembly rebuild kit?

EDIT: i will get some pics of the wiring too when it is light out.

Click to expand...

100.00us.....or close.



Pretty sure that we covered this in your previous thread.... that remains in 40 tech...

BUSTED!

alright, i'll get back when i have more info.

I rebuilt mine about 7-8 months ago and the biggest issues I had (and all the problems) were in the brake assembly. I agree with poser, my assembly was basically frozen and the disks and springs weren't worth a damn. The rebuild kit is available from any WARN dealer, though they might have to order it. Also, if your motor is bad, you'll have to switch to the newer motor as they switched the shaft from keyed to splined or vice versa, can't remember.

--Todd

rusmannx said:

EDIT AGAIN: poser, that new winch is yours? does the newer one have the same motor as mine, or is it better?

Click to expand...

It is the newer motor, 4.6hp (I think), with the newer, five-wire controller and solenoids. It is the 8274-50.(the difference between the earlier three-wire systems and the later five-wire is that they control the ground circut with the solenoids as well as power) Side note: I had a buddy take those pictures so that I could email them to Warn if they asked, as I called them about the broken t-handle on the winch(where you would have a round knob), that was concealed damage....there was nothing on the outside of the box that would indicate anything had happened to it in transit....oh, and the owners manual and that goofy red lanyard-deal was missing along with the mounting hardware.

To me, it sounds like a brake problem. I wasn't sure about which way the brake ring mounts and I was too lazy to go outside in the dark and take a peek.

The armature and the brushes look OK, but since you have it apart, you can check whether the armature is shorted to ground with an ohm meter and see if it has thrown solder from the armature onto the housing, which is evidence of over heating.

this is wiring stuff for poser (because he asked so nicely).
and as always, click on the link above the pic for the super-sized version.

so...... does this look right?


the winch is ran straight to the battery, but there is no negative terminal.
the winch is grounding through the frame (which i've noticed mixed feelings on the idea).


this is the right side of the winch (if you are looking at it from the front).
it's full of dirt, and there appears to be some kind of something in there that i assume has to do with helping it spin easily.... however this doesn't look like it is doing the job.


more pics to come as i tear into the brake assembly tomorrow (i hope).

Where is your ground lead attached to the battery and winch?


There is a bushing that seems to be all but worn away in your third pic..


You will need to get this kit also:

Warn number 8680 lower housing seal and bushing kit...


Warn brake service kit : 8409




If you do not have a gound lead between the winch motor and your battery, I would install one....if you are going to upgrade to the new motor and solenoid controller(which I would do if I were you), you will see that the new motor has a lug on the side of it to connect the negative lead to the battery.


When I ran my older 8274, I had a ground lead off one of the mounting fasteners on the motor to the winch....if I tired to use the winch without this attached, it would not work/pull for s***, and eveything would get hot...


Resistance to current flow creates heat....heat is no good.... 00 gauge fine strand welding cable does not offer much resistance to current flow.



Get that brake rebuilt!

Russ, I am very interested in your progress as i have an older 8274 that probably will need many of the same fixes/upgrades. Please take lots of pics and post your progress.
Thanks!

Ed

Poser said:

oh, and the owners manual and that goofy red lanyard-deal was missing along with the mounting hardware. /snip :

Click to expand...

I won a Warn winch and was missing the exact same things. I called Warn and the guy on the phone said for some reason whoever packs the winches in the boxes seems to space those parts often. He of course sent me out the missing parts (next day air) even though I did not tell him I was in any rush to install the thing.

alright, time for some information from WARN.
i just got off the phone and found out a lot of stuff about the motor, control pack, etc on the winch.

THE NEW MOTOR is bigger, but the WARN guy told me that you don't really see a large amount of power or speed from it versus the older one. however, it will run quite a bit longer.....
the new motor can be retofitted to the old winch by just ordering the new motor ($300). it does take a new pinion gear to fit the older style gearing, but the new gear comes with the new motor. oh, and if you break the pinion gear on your old motor, you have to buy a new motor because you can't get that pinion gear anymore

THE NEW CONTROL PACK has 3 lugs just like the old control pack, and can be bolted to either motor. the solenoids on the old pack cannot be replaced, and if one or more goes bad you have to buy the whole new pack (around $210) and it will come with the new remote. if you want to buy the new motor but your old control pack is fine, then you are in luck. EITHER CONTROL PACK CAN BE BOLTED TO EITHER MOTOR.

3 WIRES VERSUS 5 WIRES has to do with the number of used wires by the remote to connect to the new control pack. being able to control the ground circuits (the reason for the 2 extra wires) gives a higher level of control and reliablity (at least that is how i understood it).

WARN PART NUMBER 8680 is the lower housing kit as Poser tells us, and retails for $24.18 (the WARN guy told me so).

WARN PART NUMBER 8409 is the brake service kit (also just like Poser said) and retails at $64.73 (also told to me by the WARN guy).

i'll be getting both kits, but won't be upgrading to the newer motor or control pack. if you have any questions for WARN i wouldn't hesitate to call. 800.543.WARN the guy i talked to (didn't get his name) was extrememly helpful, and willing to share information just for the sake of my curiosity.

oh, here's another piece of info.
http://www.warnserviceparts.com/m8274.asp has exploded diagrams, and at the bottom there are links to purchase the two kits i stated prices for above.
prices are slightly different, but it's ballpark.

So what does your brake look like? This seems like the most likely culprit.