I am adding a rock box to my 40 (stock '78 4 speed & orion) and AA says i will have to replace the tranny output shaft. Does this mean i have to tear the tranny all the way down to change the shaft?
Mike
Mike
Stock 4 speed to rockbox to orion
- Thread starter zornff
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That is correct.
Does not matter if you do a Toybox or the AA box. Both will require a modified transmission output shaft.
Since you are hemorrhaging money and have to tear apart a transmission to make this gearing combo work, I would seriously think about installing an H41 at the same time.
Does not matter if you do a Toybox or the AA box. Both will require a modified transmission output shaft.
Since you are hemorrhaging money and have to tear apart a transmission to make this gearing combo work, I would seriously think about installing an H41 at the same time.
- Thread starter
- #3
In need of sage-like advice
Poser,
I'm about to embark on the H41 swap you just did for chattfj40
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=131979
(Excellent write up BTW!)
My setup will be minus the Rock Box. I want to have the option of a Rock Box (or one of Marlin's Toy boxes now that AA isn't going to make the Rock Box for a while) later on, when I stop hemorrhaging money. But for now doubling my low ratio and staying all Toyota is enough for me.
My question...
Where did you get the 10 spline output shaft for the H41? Or does the rock box take the 19 spline input and put out a 10 spline?
I called AA and they originally told me the 10 spline rock box output shaft can be ordered separately, and used in the H41, but when I called to place the order they thought it over again and are going to call me back. I just wondered if you had any info on this.
Thanks,
Kurt
Poser,
I'm about to embark on the H41 swap you just did for chattfj40
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=131979
(Excellent write up BTW!)
My setup will be minus the Rock Box. I want to have the option of a Rock Box (or one of Marlin's Toy boxes now that AA isn't going to make the Rock Box for a while) later on, when I stop hemorrhaging money. But for now doubling my low ratio and staying all Toyota is enough for me.
My question...
Where did you get the 10 spline output shaft for the H41? Or does the rock box take the 19 spline input and put out a 10 spline?
I called AA and they originally told me the 10 spline rock box output shaft can be ordered separately, and used in the H41, but when I called to place the order they thought it over again and are going to call me back. I just wondered if you had any info on this.
Thanks,
Kurt
Poser,
I'm about to embark on the H41 swap you just did for chattfj40
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=131979
(Excellent write up BTW!)
My setup will be minus the Rock Box. I want to have the option of a Rock Box (or one of Marlin's Toy boxes now that AA isn't going to make the Rock Box for a while) later on, when I stop hemorrhaging money. But for now doubling my low ratio and staying all Toyota is enough for me.
My question...
Where did you get the 10 spline output shaft for the H41? Or does the rock box take the 19 spline input and put out a 10 spline?
I called AA and they originally told me the 10 spline rock box output shaft can be ordered separately, and used in the H41, but when I called to place the order they thought it over again and are going to call me back. I just wondered if you had any info on this.
Thanks,
Kurt
Kurt-
I have not installed a Rock Box behind a stock or aftermarket transmission, or in front of an Orion. I have installed a Toy Box from Marlin behind a SM465 and in front of a 4:1 Orion. You can see some pictures about it HERE <---- this is a link
I guess that if I were in the market for a crawler box, I would call Marlin and go that route, hands down.
Ok, now I understand... Almost!
Poser,
Ah, I see what happened, I got my threads unraveled! I've been reading so much the last few days that I merged two threads in my head, and posted in a 3rd! :whoops:
Sorry for the accidental hijack zomff!
I've been waiting for calls back from Ken at AA and Dave at Marlin about this.
I have just a few questions left about the swap I'm doing.
I'm putting a H41 together with my stock 3 speed, I want to do the Orion later on, (and maybe a Rock Box or Toy Box as well even later on) so I was trying to find just the 10 spline output shaft that comes with the Orion kit (or Rock Box, or Marlin's Toy Box).
I'm just waiting on prices for just that part from AA and Marlin.
I saw in your H41/Orion Build thread...
(https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=131979)
..that you used a Specter "serviced" H41. I was planning on the same thing.
In your option is it worth it to get the serviced one?
The rebuild kit costs about the same as the difference between "used" and "serviced".
Now my actual question...
Since I am pulling the stock output shaft from the H41, does it matter if I buy the 1974-7/80 flavor of H41 or the 1974-7/80 one?
I'm not really sure the difference in the two flavors of H41.
Is one a 16 spline? And if so, do I even need to change to a 10 spline at all? The Orion is available in both 10 and 16 spline, as is the Rock Box, I guess ask Dave about the Marlin Box when he calls.
So I guess the real question is 10 or 16 spline, or do I even have a choice?
Thanks for all the insight!
Kurt
(PS: can I ask you a question on the link you gave me?, another awesome set of photos BTW)
Poser,
Ah, I see what happened, I got my threads unraveled! I've been reading so much the last few days that I merged two threads in my head, and posted in a 3rd! :whoops:
Sorry for the accidental hijack zomff!
I guess that if I were in the market for a crawler box, I would call Marlin and go that route, hands down.
I've been waiting for calls back from Ken at AA and Dave at Marlin about this.
I have just a few questions left about the swap I'm doing.
I'm putting a H41 together with my stock 3 speed, I want to do the Orion later on, (and maybe a Rock Box or Toy Box as well even later on) so I was trying to find just the 10 spline output shaft that comes with the Orion kit (or Rock Box, or Marlin's Toy Box).
I'm just waiting on prices for just that part from AA and Marlin.
I saw in your H41/Orion Build thread...
(https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=131979)
..that you used a Specter "serviced" H41. I was planning on the same thing.
In your option is it worth it to get the serviced one?
The rebuild kit costs about the same as the difference between "used" and "serviced".
Now my actual question...
Since I am pulling the stock output shaft from the H41, does it matter if I buy the 1974-7/80 flavor of H41 or the 1974-7/80 one?
I'm not really sure the difference in the two flavors of H41.
Is one a 16 spline? And if so, do I even need to change to a 10 spline at all? The Orion is available in both 10 and 16 spline, as is the Rock Box, I guess ask Dave about the Marlin Box when he calls.
So I guess the real question is 10 or 16 spline, or do I even have a choice?
Thanks for all the insight!
Kurt
(PS: can I ask you a question on the link you gave me?, another awesome set of photos BTW)
You can buy the 10 spline tranny output from Marlin as a seperate item. I bet AA sells it also. You can't install it until you install the Toybox or Rockbox though. That is why it makes sense to do it all at once if you plan to add a crawler in the future. Why tear it all apart twice?
John,
Why not? I don't mean to be rude, I just honestly don't get it.
You are totally right!
The only reasons I wanted to do it this way are...
a) Cash! I didn't want to drop that much at once. Call me crazy, but I'd rather put more time then money right now.
b) I want to do a slow build. As long as I don't waste $$$ buying parts 2x I don't mind doing it in a lot steps. I have a great place to work, I can take the tub off in an afternoon if I want to and really get in there and work, and leave it in pieces for a week without destroying my garage.
c) I don't want a rig more capable then I am. I'm still learning about my rig (and how to wheel intelligently) and want it to grow with my experience level.
d) I'm crazy! I've been told may times, I'm used to it. But I'm not a complete block head, if I really am spinning my wheels (metaphorically , not literally) then I'll listen to reason. (aka the guys who have actually done it and know better)
e) I love doing things the hard way, sometimes.
I hope that makes sense, or if not, I hope you at least can follow my disjointed logic.
Thanks for the heads up, and any more advice I can suck from your brain
,Kurt
Clear as Mud!!!
So for those keeping score...
I heard back from Ken at AA.
As I thought, they do have kits for either a 10 spline transmission swap or a 16 spline tcase swap.
So in the end does it matter which way I go?
More splines = more surface area, right?
Didn't toyota change from coarse spline axles "stronger" fine spline in the '60's? I guess the same should hold true on output shafts.
I hope I'm not betting a dead thread here, I just couldn't quite figure it out.
So unless I hear otherwise from Dave at Marlin it seems like the 16 spline is the way to go.
Unless I'm missing something (again)...
Thanks,
Kurt
So for those keeping score...
I heard back from Ken at AA.
As I thought, they do have kits for either a 10 spline transmission swap or a 16 spline tcase swap.
So in the end does it matter which way I go?
More splines = more surface area, right?
Didn't toyota change from coarse spline axles "stronger" fine spline in the '60's? I guess the same should hold true on output shafts.
I hope I'm not betting a dead thread here, I just couldn't quite figure it out.
So unless I hear otherwise from Dave at Marlin it seems like the 16 spline is the way to go.
Unless I'm missing something (again)...
Thanks,
Kurt
If you REALLY intend on installing a Toy Box or some other form of crawler box into your Land Cruiser, it does not make an ounce of sense to do it later, when you are in there working on this area right now. Rework costs more than just doing it the first time.
Too True
Poser,
Fair enough, that is very true. I'll take the weekend to think it over, since the future Rock Box / Toy Box is still a big question mark on the horizion.
Off the top of your head... do you remember which year range of the H41 was the 16 Spline? 1974-7/80 or 8/80-4/85 if you don't remember no biggie, I know the guys at Specter will know. I just like having the answer before I ask the question.
In Regard to the custom bars on ToyBox & Orion Install from February, 2005...
Is that DOM?
What diameter and wall thickness did you use?
Thanks again for everything Poser.
Poser,
Fair enough, that is very true. I'll take the weekend to think it over, since the future Rock Box / Toy Box is still a big question mark on the horizion.
Off the top of your head... do you remember which year range of the H41 was the 16 Spline? 1974-7/80 or 8/80-4/85 if you don't remember no biggie, I know the guys at Specter will know. I just like having the answer before I ask the question.
In Regard to the custom bars on ToyBox & Orion Install from February, 2005...
Is that DOM?
What diameter and wall thickness did you use?
Thanks again for everything Poser.
1974-07/80 will be the 16 spline output shaft on the H41.
That tubing is just the frame structure of the skid plate, which uses 3/8” thick plate to cover the openings.
The tube is HREW .120 wall.
2” was used from side to side on the rear by the parking brake drum.
1.5” was used for the rest of the main structure.
1” was used for the stringers between the front and rear cross tubes.
This is a picture of the finished product:
Most Impressive!
Wow, I never saw the finished product! That's some nice fabricating. I'm going to take a stab at a similar layout, I'm sure by the 4th attempt I'll have something I won't be embarrassed to put on my cruiser.
Until then I need to spend a lot of quality time with the POS Harbor Freight hydraulic tube bender in my garage.
Thanks for everything,
Kurt
Wow, I never saw the finished product! That's some nice fabricating. I'm going to take a stab at a similar layout, I'm sure by the 4th attempt I'll have something I won't be embarrassed to put on my cruiser.
Until then I need to spend a lot of quality time with the POS Harbor Freight hydraulic tube bender in my garage.
Thanks for everything,
Kurt
